tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post2224385507258828292..comments2024-03-14T04:53:49.513-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: What is in a NameFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-63310862596000607012010-01-19T14:59:01.688-06:002010-01-19T14:59:01.688-06:00"Perhaps their e-mail can be set with automat..."Perhaps their e-mail can be set with automatic stamps that say "This e-mail was sent by a female person". Is this more/less/just as relevant as knowing that someone sent you an e-mail from their iPhone?"<br /><br />It's just as relevant. Not at all! =)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-673529064094023092010-01-11T11:25:29.473-06:002010-01-11T11:25:29.473-06:00How about Ben Barres, the male Stanford professor ...How about Ben Barres, the male Stanford professor who is transgendered? I've heard a story that someone in his talk said something like "his work is so much better than his sister's", thinking that he actually been had been his sister, back when he was female. (that was a very hard sentence to write in terms of choosing pronouns...hope the meaning is clear)<br /><br />Here's an article he wrote in Nature after the Larry Summers thing.<br /><br />http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v442/n7099/full/442133a.htmlWanna Be Motherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463224427748832508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-57783485824041351152010-01-09T23:00:05.027-06:002010-01-09T23:00:05.027-06:00I'm chinese but my husband is american (white)...I'm chinese but my husband is american (white). I don't use my married name professionally But sometimes in non-professional settings I do if it will be a big hassle not to (such as when it's somehow necessary to group you together with your husband as part of a couple). In that case I often get strange looks but I see no need to elaborate as it's no one's business why my name is or isn't what it is. <br /><br />I have a friend who is also Chinese but was adopted. His adoptive family is white american thus his lastname is such. He also always gets weird looks all his life and he too never offers any explanation unless people ask directly.<br /><br />We are living in the 21st century in america, people should by now know that things like interracial marriages or adopting foreign-born children are common and not hold themselves to narrow minded expectations of who should have what kind of name.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-52750220284376495982010-01-09T20:28:28.202-06:002010-01-09T20:28:28.202-06:00This name thing hits close to home, not for the ge...This name thing hits close to home, not for the gender bias, but for the cultural one. I will not be taking my fiance's last name (Chinese) for a number of reasons. One of them is that when my lab gets applicants with Asian last names (even US born, or have a long history in English speaking countries), most of the time they get disqualified for potential 'communication difficulties'. I would be double screwed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32820926740222769432010-01-07T19:25:03.588-06:002010-01-07T19:25:03.588-06:00No worries, Hope! I finally realized what I did. ...No worries, Hope! I finally realized what I did. I typed (slash snark) at the end to indicate I had been snarky, but I used angle brackets and the comment editor treated it as bad HTML and erased it. I gotta remember to use the preview option more regularly.<br /><br />I think my comments about ignoring published data stemmed from the discussion in <a href="http://science-professor.blogspot.com/2009/12/let-them-eat-pizza.html" rel="nofollow">FSP comments</a> back on December 3, 2009. You can see my hopefully more reasonable take on published data there. In fact, since writing those comments back in December, I read the article in question and it was quite interesting and quite convincing ("Double-blind review favours increased representation of female authors") ... although I was ready to believe the conclusions beforehand.a physicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795655141660959996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61308644798332330082010-01-07T16:48:58.250-06:002010-01-07T16:48:58.250-06:00Thanks for clarifying that, a_physicist. And my ap...Thanks for clarifying that, a_physicist. And my apologies for the snide remark.Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-50863680696953523512010-01-07T15:30:47.142-06:002010-01-07T15:30:47.142-06:00ps: should have been a "backslash snark"...ps: should have been a "backslash snark" in my comment.<br /><br />Again, I'm sorry that I confused people, I was trying to be funny, not to be a troll. Biogirl, thanks for thinking it was funny, I'm glad someone did!a physicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795655141660959996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-87857306477621011362010-01-07T15:18:36.204-06:002010-01-07T15:18:36.204-06:00Sorry, everybody!!! I honestly meant to include a...Sorry, everybody!!! I honestly meant to include a "" at the end of my comment. Yes, I was trying to be sarcastic. I signed the post "Sincerely, various anonymous comments" to indicate who I was spoofing.<br /><br />To emphasize, I believe nothing of my post, I was trying to be funny. I'm sorry that the humor was lost.a physicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795655141660959996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34663027062266880362010-01-07T11:12:15.327-06:002010-01-07T11:12:15.327-06:00Reading a single author (somewhat rare in my field...Reading a single author (somewhat rare in my field) paper in journal club, the entire room presumed the author was a male tenured professor, when in fact, she was a female graduate student! I think the audience would have reacted differently had they known. I plan on finding a similar paper when I present & seeing if the presumed gender/age difference changes anything.<br /><br /><br />The only time I've been addressed as "sir" was when I began receiving emails for a professional athlete with the same first initial and last name. Those were fun, though.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-71503590345505115212010-01-07T11:09:49.827-06:002010-01-07T11:09:49.827-06:00When I read "a physicist"'s comment,...When I read "a physicist"'s comment, I thought - good job, that about sums up what the anonymous people gotta say - it was hilarious! I am surprised many others didn't get the sarcasm!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18842069657528309782010-01-06T14:41:59.241-06:002010-01-06T14:41:59.241-06:00A great post, FSP.
@Greg 07.20: many Chinese sci...A great post, FSP. <br /><br />@Greg 07.20: many Chinese scientists I know choose to add an English name to their original one. I never asked them why, but it sure has the side effects of<br />1) making it clear what their gender is;<br />2) making it possible, or at least much easier, to find them or their papers through search engines (try the difference between having surname Camoranesi and Li);<br />3) avoiding most people you know the embarassment of severely mispronouncing your own name.prosaicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-10866295898697322982010-01-06T11:14:59.268-06:002010-01-06T11:14:59.268-06:00@a physicist: Were you being sarcastic? Please rea...@a physicist: Were you being sarcastic? Please reassure us! We don’t really “know” you well, so it’s hard to tell….Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-85160388700346649542010-01-06T10:36:13.713-06:002010-01-06T10:36:13.713-06:00a physicist says: "Nor do I believe any publi...a physicist says: "Nor do I believe any published studies showing sexism in science, because those studies are probably flawed since their conclusions make no sense to me." That is just about the most anti-scientific attitude I have ever heard. I thought scientists were supposed to objectively follow the data, even if the data lead to a conclusion they don't like.amynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56974727067790558982010-01-06T08:46:06.197-06:002010-01-06T08:46:06.197-06:00I find it bizarre that many of these comments focu...I find it bizarre that many of these comments focus so much hatred/disdain on FSP for her lack of objectivity and apparent desire to see sexism in everything. If you go back and actually *read* her post, the news story in question is mentioned only tangentially, with FSP commenting not at all about whether it is sexist that James got more or less work or whatever as a man. She merely uses it as a jumping off point to discuss our rights/responsibilities in conducting professional business, which does/could have some link to gender but also does/could link to race, religion, and like or dislike of cats. In regards to the n=1 situation, again - FSP uses this story only tangentially, also noting situations that happen much more frequently (like the 'Dear Sir' letters when someone is clearly a out as a female on their website). <br /><br />Not meaning to be snarky, but genuinely curious: why the hostility??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17296491211523910292010-01-06T07:50:49.471-06:002010-01-06T07:50:49.471-06:00It wouldn't be that hard to start a whole new ...It wouldn't be that hard to start a whole new portfolio. It sounds as if this person writes for clients who want items that are not necessarily public domain. One could easily begin a portfolio by taking items that are not public and replacing the name on them. As the pen name gains more clientele of its own, the writer could then begin replacing previous items with items written under the pen name. At a point where the two portfolios are completely different, one could then start using both real and pen names to apply for jobs with the same clients.<br /><br />If done in this way, I think it makes the argument more convincing that this person was a victim of sexism, i.e. the same original portfolio resulted in a much higher response rate under a male name.<br /><br />Of course, we all know that no one has ever examined response rates to job applications/resumes/CVs...<br /><br />Oh wait, they have! And just a few days ago, too! http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/jan/01/job-discrimination-anonymous-cvs-reportAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-49600465970259721262010-01-06T02:32:44.188-06:002010-01-06T02:32:44.188-06:00I think that the James Chartrand incident “proves”...I think that the James Chartrand incident “proves” that people who write misogynist crap are overcompensating … for something.<br /><br />Seriously, though – what’s in a name? On the internet, I would argue, not much. People are free to choose pseudonyms or monikers that convey exactly as much (or as little) information as they want. So yes, on the internet, nobody knows you’re a dog (and maybe they don’t need to know) – unless you have a blog/website devoted to your doggie lifestyle. Then you can expect what you say to follow you around much closer than IRL, because that is the only way that people have of “knowing” you. (This goes for those that comment pseudonymously on blogs, too.) FSP may or may not be who she claims to be. The only way I have of “knowing” that is by reading her posts and asking myself if the whole picture rings true.<br /><br />P.S. Thanks for the link, Anne.Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-46041014495158745732010-01-06T02:29:02.635-06:002010-01-06T02:29:02.635-06:00Anon 4:14: I have to point out that this anecdote ...Anon 4:14: <i>I have to point out that this anecdote proves nothing. Most of us here are scientists; let's be objective, shall we?....2) Sample size=1. Enough to rule out pure chance?</i><br /><br />actually, if you have read the rest of FSP's blog, as well as the blogs of other women, and comments on those blogs (not to mention if you talk to a lot of different women in person) you would see that sample size is most definitely > 1. You are zeroing in on one data point - i.e. this post - and assuming that this is the entirety of the data set that exists. This is like reading one paper (and not a review paper) and assuming it is all-inclusive of the entire field. As you said yourself, "let's be objective, shall we?"<br /><br /><br />"a physicist" :<i>Sadly, I can't conclude anything from your N = 802 individual examples because each of them are individual, nor can I conclude anything from the N' = 1007 other bloggers posting similar individual examples. Nor do I believe any published studies showing sexism in science, because those studies are probably flawed since their conclusions make no sense to me.</i><br /><br />So how can you believe your own alternative conclusion since they are also based on N=1 (i.e. yourself)? Where is the proof that your N=1 is more valid than FSP's N=800 and the other bloggers' N'=1007. And you don't believe any published studies showing sexism in science "because those studies are probably flawed since their conclusions make no sense to me." So if you are unable to understand the conclusions, then this proves that ALL the studies are flawed, rather than YOU being flawed? LOL!! Here's another "objective" one, folks!<br /><br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anon 4:28: <i>It reflects very poorly on the calibre of the members of the scientific community commenting on this board that they are rushing to their conclusion with an unsightly mob mentality, ruling out, in the process, perfectly valid alternative explanations.<br /></i><br /><br />It also reflects poorly on the writer of this comment that he/she (but I suspect it's a 'he' , dunno why..) rushed to conclusion without even reading the article in question. (like the part about how she continued on with her old name at the same time as the pseudonym and it was the pseudonynm that got her further.)<br /><br /><br />It's hilarious how vehemently FSP's detractors accuse her of presenting opinion as fact, while they themselves do exactly the same with just as much outcry.<br /><br />FSP, keep up the good work, your blog certainly raises social awareness both in the posts you write as well as in the revealing comments you receive.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32061174200105892512010-01-06T02:19:01.094-06:002010-01-06T02:19:01.094-06:00@Anon 1/05/2010 04:14:00 & 08:29:00 PM – Huh?!...@Anon 1/05/2010 04:14:00 & 08:29:00 PM – Huh?! How is this a response to what FSP wrote? Perhaps you could point out to me where, in this post, she says that this anecdote, in and of itself, is “proof” that sexism still exists in the world.<br /><br />Can’t find it? Then maybe you should go away and think about why you are being so defensive about this – a claim that *you* injected into this post. Because really, you’re not fooling anyone around these parts – except maybe yourself.<br /><br />@a physicist – <i>Nor do I believe any published studies showing sexism in science, because those studies are probably flawed since their conclusions make no sense to me.</i><br /><br />Wow – what a fantastic physicist you must be! Whenever you don’t understand a conclusion, it must be that the evidence (or analysis) is wrong. If only the founders of quantum mechanics had the courage to think this way, who knows where we’d be now….Hopenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37478429823294754932010-01-05T21:05:01.196-06:002010-01-05T21:05:01.196-06:00First, I think the incomplete details of the "...First, I think the incomplete details of the "James" case do not undercut the validity of FSP's more general discussion - it is just one anecdote and she lists many in her post.<br /><br />However, I suspect James had written the storyline to her coming-out post too neatly. I don't see how she can apply to the same job opportunities equally with two different names. Doesn't one require more than a name to apply for a job? Typically some portfolio, some references, and a pitch accompany a job application. How can she use the same references for two different names? Taken literally, there would be a companion site to the men-with-pens site (http://menwithpens.ca/guns-for-hire) - a women-with-pens site that was less successful. I doubt the women-with-pens site had the eye-catching bullet logo and slogan hit the bull's eye of success, although perhaps it was equally good.<br /><br />This is not the controlled experiment in which only a first name has been changed.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81806245117297619742010-01-05T20:29:52.173-06:002010-01-05T20:29:52.173-06:00As I said, whenever you are tempted to draw conclu...As I said, whenever you are tempted to draw conclusions based on this anecdote, try to ask yourself if there are similar anecdotes with regard to other standard bullshit out there....like miracle spring water and faith healing. <br /><br />Even if you want to believe the sexism angle, don't you think you should mention, at least in passing, that pure chance is also a fairly plausible conclusion in this regard? <br /><br />And what about the possibility that the new name helped her feel like she was making a new start. When you lose several times, you get sucked into the loser feeling and the loser feeling sabotages success. A drastic shift might help to ease that. Surely you find this to be a plausible phenomenon as well. <br /><br />I don't see why either of these 2 possibilities is any less plausible than the sexism explanation. Yet none of these possibilities were even alluded to, either in FSP's original post or in the words of the knowledgeable commentators who followed suit. Don't you think it is DISTURBING that scientists would think in such a biased manner? <br /><br />And notice the subdued manner in which FSP responded to my first post and so did "Alex". Both responses basically suggested that this anecdote is not that big of a deal and that my post analyses it more than it deserves to. <br /><br />I gather that FSP kinda sees my point. What scientist wouldn't?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-63010609906101941532010-01-05T19:59:45.071-06:002010-01-05T19:59:45.071-06:00Dear FSP,
Once again you have posted some informa...Dear FSP,<br /><br />Once again you have posted some information based on a small sample size (n=1 in this case). This now makes N = 802 examples of posts by you demonstrating apparently sexist behavior with a small sample size. Thus, I conclude from your N = 802 posts that you see sexism in everything. Sadly, I can't conclude anything from your N = 802 individual examples because each of them are individual, nor can I conclude anything from the N' = 1007 other bloggers posting similar individual examples. Nor do I believe any published studies showing sexism in science, because those studies are probably flawed since their conclusions make no sense to me.<br /><br />Sincerely, various anonymous comments.a physicisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16795655141660959996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11447380660868215942010-01-05T17:47:31.388-06:002010-01-05T17:47:31.388-06:00When this woman picked her new pseudonym, a male p...<i>When this woman picked her new pseudonym, a male pseudonym no less, she says clearly that she was turning over a whole new leaf. A lot of soul searching must have gone into this. A new pseudonym meant she could chuck her old failures into the dustbin and begin afresh.</i><br /><br /><i>Has it ever occurred to you that when a desperate person who has hit rock bottom, decides to try and start in a whole new way, wriggles out of the negativity of past disappointment and pretends to be a whole new person, he/she just might succeed?</i><br /><br />It is certainly true that this is not a perfect controlled experiment. It is indeed possible that the old name has some baggage attached from previous failures, while the new name has only the benefit of the fresh start and new leaf. However, as it is described it seems unlikely. She apparently didn't have much of a reputation yet when she chose a new name.<br /><br />This story is an anecdote with a plausible interpretation. The fact that it is not a perfect controlled experiment does not mean that it simply cannot be discussed or analyzed at all. Otherwise, nobody would be allowed to talk about anything from their life experience without first getting IRB approval for whatever they do with human subjects (i.e. the people they are interacting with) and then having a professional statistician evaluate the results. That would be a boring and intellectually frustrating world, to say the least.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-26904802380405140642010-01-05T16:40:49.261-06:002010-01-05T16:40:49.261-06:00anon 4:28:00
I think you need to read the linked ...anon 4:28:00<br /><br />I think you need to read the linked post more carefully. After she took on the male name, she also continued her old business under her old name with the same marginal success at actually attracting clients. She actually applied for some jobs with BOTH names with the male name invariably winning the "race". So if it were simply that she was getting better or more aggressive or hopeful, the gains should have applied to her work under both names since she was continuing to work under both names. However, this wasn't the case. She applied the same renewed effort to both, but invariably had much more success with the male name.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-12900673037693026542010-01-05T16:28:12.440-06:002010-01-05T16:28:12.440-06:00I think the feminist crowd is being too quick to l...I think the feminist crowd is being too quick to lay on the sexism slur.<br /><br />Think again.<br /><br />When this woman picked her new pseudonym, a male pseudonym no less, she says clearly that she was turning over a whole new leaf. A lot of soul searching must have gone into this. A new pseudonym meant she could chuck her old failures into the dustbin and begin afresh.<br /><br />Has it ever occurred to you that when a desperate person who has hit rock bottom, decides to try and start in a whole new way, wriggles out of the negativity of past disappointment and pretends to be a whole new person, he/she just might succeed?<br /><br />Maybe her male pseudonym helped her to take a brand new shot...and it worked. It reflects very poorly on the calibre of the members of the scientific community commenting on this board that they are rushing to their conclusion with an unsightly mob mentality, ruling out, in the process, perfectly valid alternative explanations.<br /><br />I am shocked that a tenured science professor such as FSP, a million years my senior in the profession, would not spot such an obvious snag.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30063619437315998542010-01-05T16:21:39.696-06:002010-01-05T16:21:39.696-06:00Overreaction to a blog post musing about the signi...Overreaction to a blog post musing about the significance of names, anyone?Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.com