tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post244634072369804961..comments2024-03-14T04:53:49.513-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Ending ItFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25254063078594725462011-11-16T19:46:47.479-06:002011-11-16T19:46:47.479-06:001c: "I'm running out of time, so I'm ...1c: "I'm running out of time, so I'm going to skip this slide. What it shows is... [long description]" (adkowledges time constraints, but is ineffective at finishing on time.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30774854257582355212011-11-10T15:28:06.692-06:002011-11-10T15:28:06.692-06:00In my country you are supposed to end the speech i...In my country you are supposed to end the speech in time. Too long speeches make me grit my teeth!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41361748753441830502011-11-04T12:46:08.725-05:002011-11-04T12:46:08.725-05:00-Outlines are usually bad in short talks but okay ...-Outlines are usually bad in short talks but okay if they're particularly interesting/useful (almost never)<br /><br />-I do like outlines that repeat throughout for longer talks if they help clarify the different "sections" of the talk (going beyond intro, experimental, results, etc.). Also, the speaker needs to use the outline slides in their segue between sections and not just pop them up and skip over them.<br /><br />I actually don't like long conclusions slides, period. Read or unread. I've started putting a lot of effort into making short and snappy conclusion slides (that I do go over), often with figures if possible. My undergrad advisor always told me you had to provide a "take-home message" and that's what I try to do - but without bogging the listener down with a ton of detailed conclusions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-88769788101715212542011-11-04T09:15:43.981-05:002011-11-04T09:15:43.981-05:00I hate it when boring speakers go over time, and I...I hate it when boring speakers go over time, and I have walked out from front-row seats.<br /><br />But I also have a poor sense of time when I am doing things (programming, reading, giving a talk), so I have run over, even with carefully timed talks. Some of my best talks are ones that I have given under very different time constraints (the same material in anything from 20 minutes to 3 hours), and so it is easy to accidentally slip in more than there is time for, particularly in response to a question in mid-talk.<br /><br />If I run out of time, I generally skip through to my last slides, which have a very quick list of the main points and URLs for more information (including a PDF version of the slides). I leave the URLs up during the question period (if there is any left).<br /><br />It helps me if the moderator does not rely on subtle signals (does holding a hand up mean 5 minutes left? or time's up?). I'm generally looking out at the whole audience, not focusing on the moderator, who often is not even particularly visible at the side of the stage.<br /><br />I would welcome a big visible light.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-36462923640996492442011-11-02T10:39:05.467-05:002011-11-02T10:39:05.467-05:00I really don't understand the outline slide ha...I really don't understand the outline slide hate. Let me give an example: in my field it might be<br /><br />* Motivation<br />* Equivariant Schubert calculus<br />* Floer homology<br />* Loop groups<br />* New results<br /><br />That is nice because then I know the speaker's going to introduce three cool topics and then tie them all together in the last part. What's wrong with this? <br /><br />I suppose in math we never have outline slides that say "methods" or "conclusions" -- so is that the difference? Simply outlining how things will proceed will help me focus my attention appropriately and indicate whether it's a proofy talk or a big-picture talk.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74898480551922679162011-11-02T10:16:59.783-05:002011-11-02T10:16:59.783-05:00Have you guys ever seen the the (ig)nobel awards p...Have you guys ever seen the the (ig)nobel awards presentation? When awardees go over in their acceptace speech, the voice of a small child saying "Please stop, I'm bored..." over and over again, louder and louder is played. It's amazing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-80439770549093627582011-11-02T09:12:08.307-05:002011-11-02T09:12:08.307-05:00Going over (by more than your time alloted for que...Going over (by more than your time alloted for questions can accommodate, I agree this is usually no more than 10% of the talk time) is THE WORST. There is no excuse. I went to a conference where the conference chair had specifically rearranged the schedule to give one guy lots of extra time compared to everyone else, knowing in advance he likes to talk a lot. You might think the speaker then kept to time, but you'd be wrong. He went over by 50 minutes (for a talk scheduled to be 45 minutes). WTF????????Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-50399753323177734272011-11-02T09:09:28.306-05:002011-11-02T09:09:28.306-05:00Regarding the conclusions slide - I think FSP made...Regarding the conclusions slide - I think FSP made an important point in the original post that slid by most people. A lot of conferences are international, and - from what I hear - people who aren't native English speakers appreciate having words to read in case the speaker talks too fast or has an accent they're not familiar with; similarly, if someone does have a strong accent (due to nationality or just local dialect), a conclusions slide is the best way to make sure everyone understood what you were trying to say. I think it's required, though I agree it's annoying when it's read word for word.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4595790526262293622011-11-01T23:27:55.131-05:002011-11-01T23:27:55.131-05:00I like the animal sounds idea. I have been to conf...I like the animal sounds idea. I have been to conferences with the red-yellow-green light indicator, but I haven't seen that it makes much difference, at least not for certain people. Maybe it works for the vast majority, but it's easier to focus on being annoyed by the miscreants.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43689433984751167092011-11-01T23:20:23.337-05:002011-11-01T23:20:23.337-05:00Wow, I LOVE the music idea! I go to a conference...Wow, I LOVE the music idea! I go to a conference with a large number of synchronized talks and they use the red/yellow/green light method. In my experience, it works well. I think the pressure of the highly parallel schedule enforces it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-50704233985431493222011-11-01T21:55:06.785-05:002011-11-01T21:55:06.785-05:00Hey, are there papers available for these theoreti...Hey, are there papers available for these theoretical talks?<br /><br />If there are, I'm comfortable skipping all the details and going to the juicy conclusions. Somethings along the lines of, "We used a large sample telephone survey, see the paper for details. What we found was.........".<br /><br />Having the paper available makes a big difference.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-36674554997882712292011-11-01T18:18:51.184-05:002011-11-01T18:18:51.184-05:00Never go over time, even by 1 minute. It is extrem...Never go over time, even by 1 minute. It is extremely rude. If you are caught off guard, then the best option is #4.<br /><br />However, I think that the real work necessary to address the overtime issue comes before you even get to the conference. The important material should come first, and the presentation should have a "crumple zone" at the end. This consists of small "modules" lasting only 5 minutes or less each, each of which can safely be skipped without compromising the talk too much. Then in the event of things going slower than expected, you simply allow the crumple zone to crumple to the appropriate degree, shortening the presentation by skipping as many modules as necessary.<br /><br />For example, if I'm giving a 50 minute talk, I might have the first 30 minutes consist of the main portion of the talk, and then have 5 5-minute "modules" at the end. If things go faster than expected, I could cover all the modules. If they go slower than expected, I could do just 1 or 2 of them. When I have 5 minutes left, I finish the module I'm currently doing and shut up.<br /><br />When this is done properly, the flow of the presentation isn't interrupted at all. It's hard at first to come up with topics that can be safely dropped from a talk -- after all, everything you do is extremely important and worth hearing -- but after some practice it becomes a lot easier.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-13133032835788047642011-11-01T18:12:37.516-05:002011-11-01T18:12:37.516-05:00At the meetings of one society that I always atten...At the meetings of one society that I always attend, we have synchronized timers hooked up to the speakers used to broadcast sound in each of the rooms where talks are held. At the end of the suggested talk period, a few seconds of music or animal sounds are played in each room. The speaker then has 3 minutes to either take questions or finish up. After the 3 minutes, VERY LOUD music or animal sounds, loud enough so that no one could talk over them, are played, and everyone has 2 minutes or so to move to another room if they want or just chill until the next talk. It works perfectly, prevents the oblivious from taking up others' time, and keeps the sessions synched. I have no idea why every single conference doesn't do this.MZnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60785376550440398482011-11-01T17:48:27.578-05:002011-11-01T17:48:27.578-05:00Moderators can glare, stand up, give verbal warnin...Moderators can glare, stand up, give verbal warnings/threats, and of course some venues have the green-yellow-red traffic lights, including the ominous blinking red (= totally out of time), but it seems that none of these are particularly effective for the worst offenders. Has anyone tried cutting off a presentation visually? (that is, switching off the presentation entirely?). I have never seen this, but I have thought about it.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37098237763791192602011-11-01T16:05:16.347-05:002011-11-01T16:05:16.347-05:00I may be the only one, but outlines don't both...I may be the only one, but outlines don't bother me that much. It's totally uncreative and looks bad if you literally write "outline: introduction, methods, point A, point B, conclusions" but at least the speaker is "telling you what they are going to tell you" so you aren't lost. A talk less than 15 min does NOT need an outline, though. I think that, instead, if it's done creatively (like showing a model and saying that part 1 of talk is left-hand side of model and part 2 is right-hand side, and then showing the completed model as the conclusions slide), it can orient the audience well. Otherwise, especially if the talk is running long, the audience may just be like "why are they still talking? when will this end? how many more points do they have to make?"<br /><br />But, being over the time limit is my number 1 pet peeve of all time. It doesn't matter how awesome and famous you are, if you go more than 10% of your allotted speaking time over, you disrespect the entire audience, and they won't really hear a word you are saying. Seriously, when I'm at seminars, once it hits that time point, all I hear in my head is "is it over yet? how about now? is it rude if I left right now?" And, number 2 pet peeve is when the speaker starts skipping over slides AFTER time is out, stops on a few, and decides to describe them in complete detail but at top verbal speed. If this was the most interesting part of the study, maybe all that other stuff you talked about before shouldn't be in the talk at all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81327977172912645422011-11-01T15:56:04.070-05:002011-11-01T15:56:04.070-05:00I agree with Anon 6:42 -- let's redo this sur...I agree with Anon 6:42 -- let's redo this survey for the session moderators!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18217332690442818012011-11-01T15:26:11.084-05:002011-11-01T15:26:11.084-05:00I like it when a speaker puts up a single conclusi...I like it when a speaker puts up a single conclusions slide but doesn't read it or really talk about it (pops it up while saying, thanks, I'll end here). I take notes during talks, so it's nice to have a condensed version of what the speaker thinks is the important takeaway message to see if I missed anything. Seven to ten minute talks are standard in my field, so if you have more than one or two takeaway points, you're trying to cram too much in anyhow.<br /><br />As far as what people should do when they're out of time: they should learn how to design a friggin talk for the time given. It isn't that difficult (one slide per minute of the talk works well). If for some reason you haven't timed the talk, watch the clock, and know which slides you can skip if you start to run out of time. Skipping methods is preferable to skipping discussion of the take home message (people can always read your paper later, think of talks as advertisements for your paper).<br /><br />I really like your suggestion of giving chronic offenders posters.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-67834158890005725572011-11-01T15:10:32.735-05:002011-11-01T15:10:32.735-05:00To answer the question:
I'd stop briefly on e...To answer the question:<br /><br />I'd stop briefly on each of the remaining slides, just mentioning the main point, then somewhat speed up the conclusions. Which doesn't seem to be a listed option.<br /><br />I put a summary slide at the beginning and end even of my 12-minute talks. This isn't a murder mystery, I want the audience to know what I am trying to demonstrate from the start, and evaluate whether I proved my points at the end.<br /><br />Anathema to me is a talk in which I am guessing "why is the speaker saying this? What was that graph's ultimate purpose?", when the majority of talks don't prove much of anything. Many speakers would benefit by being forced to articulate at the end what were the main points and why should anybody care.<br /><br />As for running over time, just don't. At AGU, everyone can see the flashing red light, and thinks less of you the longer you interrupt the schedule. Especially the next speakers, who are likely specialists in your field.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41500726183546891742011-11-01T14:20:32.176-05:002011-11-01T14:20:32.176-05:00Outlines are especially terrible when the person s...Outlines are especially terrible when the person spends 2-3 minutes of the 15 minute talk on the damn outline. I especially love when the speakers outline basically has the same wording as their 'intro/background' slide, but smaller font.<br /><br />Unrelated hatred: Young/Student presenters who are reading a speech word for word.Canadian_Brainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-51096111858831740072011-11-01T12:40:31.186-05:002011-11-01T12:40:31.186-05:00I'm curious about the comment about moderators...I'm curious about the comment about moderators being better about cutting people off. Have you seen any methods that are consistently effective for this? I've witnessed plenty of examples of speakers completely ignoring moderators who signal time in various methods (hand gestures, standing up). I also used to go to a meeting where all podiums had a timer with a green/orange/red/flashing red button - impossible to miss! Maybe all moderators should have a way to cut off the speaker's mic?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-92086401877121116792011-11-01T12:39:40.554-05:002011-11-01T12:39:40.554-05:00I recently attended a major conference in my field...I recently attended a major conference in my field where Superstar-Household-Name researcher gave a talk as part of a panel. He didn't give a presentation (too modern/flashy and ya-know clear?) but read a paper (which is not what the rest of my field does). He then proceded to take up 80-90% of the time allocated to 3 people. I think it was actually supposed to be 4 and one couldn't make it. The whole ballroom of over a thousand people was getting antsy and annoyed - the unrest was palpable. Lots of people walked out before person 2 got to speak as they needed to go put up posters and such for the next session. But, being the superstar that he is, and very old, people were respectful enough to not mass exodus during his talk.<br /><br />My impression was that this guy was an arrogant jerk. Between stealing time, not conforming to the presentation conventions of the field and his apparent obliviousness to the whole thing just gave me a bad taste in my mouth. Maybe he was insulted he was part of a panel rather than being a stand-alone keynote? Who knows, but he managed to tarnish his superstar image with a lot of grad students who would otherwise be a bit awed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29493446312108570032011-11-01T11:54:40.043-05:002011-11-01T11:54:40.043-05:00When finding myself with insufficient time left, I...When finding myself with insufficient time left, I just go quickly over the last slides, put up the conclusions slide without reading it, and take questions. But I too get quite annoyed when people take much longer (more than about 10% more, I would say) than allotted time, even if I was enjoying their talk before that. <br /><br />Also, without meaning to highjack FSP's thread, I would like to offer a variation and ask how people approach the problem of invited speakers (in departmental seminars) who go WAY over time. Sure there are no other speakers waiting for their turn, but people's time is still important in this case. The talk has (usually) been quite long enough already by the allotted time. And yet, standing up to indicate "time's up" seems weird when you've invited that person to give that talk.jennynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-71505090723105429372011-11-01T11:09:07.761-05:002011-11-01T11:09:07.761-05:00Talk outlines are the worst, especially for a shor...Talk outlines are the worst, especially for a short talk. Going over the time limit means that you think that whatever you have to say is Gosh Darn important that you need to steal (which is what it is) someone else's time slot. There is no research in the world that is so good that it makes that behavior acceptable. I think that session provider's should be able to jump in and cut people off.<br /><br />As for ending without finishing the research slides in order to take questions or finishing research by eating up question time, I think that finishing research slides (without going into the next person's slot) is often better as questions can be highly variable in intelligence level and usefulness for the audience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39277746608188416632011-11-01T11:00:19.538-05:002011-11-01T11:00:19.538-05:00I totally disagree with most of you. I think you ...I totally disagree with most of you. I think you must have very amazing brains capable of much better attention than even the rest of us "normal" scientists...or maybe it's just me? I don't really like most outlines at the beginning of a SHORT TALK because it does seem like they are so often pointless--the worst is when outlines slides have listed just intro, research, conclusions! But, summing up the major points made in something like an outline, even in a short talk, I like. Otherwise I just kind of forget what the heck is going on and how everything fits together. Especially at a conference, where you are constantly in information overload mode, it helps me to see the conclusions for what the research found all together at the end. We tend to remember the end the most, so to me that is the best time to draw conclusions together and make your big final statement. I really thought you were going to like the skip to the outline idea best because to me that seems to be obviously the best way to actually make sure your talk was in the end effective for getting your main points across. Boy was I wrong!<br /><br />In long talks (>30mins) I like outlines and I like when they go back to the outline along the way. Otherwise I forget what happened at the beginning and I forget how things connect. You people have freakish-ly good brains and maybe you need to think a mile in someone elses brain (or see a talk in someone else's brain) to appreciate how "normal" brains work a little better. Assuming that anyone who makes it in science must have a freakish brain like that or they can't succeed because you are going to skip all the things that help normal people follow talks is just another form of an -ism, I think. Non-freakishly powerful brain-ism, we could call it.<br /><br />I'm not saying let dumb people do science. I'm a freakishly smart chick who is an asset to science, in my opinion and the opinion of some other PhD's. I just don't have a great memory for random information that's not yet all connected up with stuff already in my brain. And, sometimes my attention span isn't what it used to be. I swear this is getting worse due to the stupid Iphone that I want to get rid of now. <br /><br />In any case, I'm curious which method you describe would actually be more effective for people to remember what the talk was about 1 month later? Or even 1 week later? That is an interesting research question for the education folks. <br /><br />I guess this all comes down the the question, what is the goal of your talk? To speak only to the experts in your sub-sub-field of science? I can follow the talks that are very related to my research because I already have those nice brain connections so everything isn't new and it fits in nicely with what's already in there. To have those experts remember your talk or just to spark their interest so they will go download your papers? To speak to people in your sub-field and have them follow your talk? Remember your talk? Learn something that is related to their research and allows them to connect your two sub-fields because your talk was so awesome they now see a new connection? <br /><br />What SHOULD the goals of a talk in the various formats be (ex, conference 12-15 min talk, conference 30 min, 60 min invited talk, departmental colloquium)?<br /><br />Note that this is also a very interesting and often overlooked question for teaching in the classroom as well. Is the goal for them to just understand the material enough to pass the tests or do you have any long-term goals? Thinking honestly about what your students will remember in 1 year and 10 years is an interesting experiment, especially because I know how little I remember from the classes that I took but don't use.Stephanienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31802574863287764212011-11-01T10:09:22.401-05:002011-11-01T10:09:22.401-05:00I recently chaired a paper session at a conference...I recently chaired a paper session at a conference for the first time. I generally have my talks down to exactly the allotted time myself so I have little patience for people who run over. In this case, the first presenter in the session was running over - I don't know if it was a failure of planning or of execution. I ended up letting her run long and then basically cutting her question time to zero to stay on track. She kept acknowledging that she was running over, but seemed to not care. BTW, definitely NOT a senior person in my field, not even a well known person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com