tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post2823532483160985152..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Home Angst HomeFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37975213402110982732010-09-16T21:46:45.510-05:002010-09-16T21:46:45.510-05:00It's funny how different things mean a lot to ...It's funny how different things mean a lot to different people. It meant almost nothing to my relatives when I was admitted as an undergrad (and later grad) to the one of the top schools in my field, nothing when I interned at NASA, but the summer I took an internship coding for Google, it was suddenly a huge deal.<br /><br />I suppose I'm lucky in that though thye may not understand or respect the work I do, they respect and love me as a person.Another Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56453196687437283342009-08-11T21:34:18.969-05:002009-08-11T21:34:18.969-05:00Your post and the associated comments made me real...Your post and the associated comments made me realize many of us in science have a similar experience to quote. Although funny, this article really captures the passive response often required to weather a visit home:<br /><a href="http://www.theonion.com/content/node/28852" rel="nofollow">The Onion - 95 Percent Of Opinions Withheld On Visit To Family</a>PTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18975027317754662732009-08-11T10:55:55.168-05:002009-08-11T10:55:55.168-05:00I haven't had that many priviledges in life, b...I haven't had that many priviledges in life, but having had a family who respected and supported my scientific interests from an early age and always was one. Good on you for becoming the wonderful successful FSP that you are, and finding ways to manage your time with your family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43063117648835795972009-08-11T01:01:36.018-05:002009-08-11T01:01:36.018-05:00Wow, FSP, that makes me feel better in comparison....Wow, FSP, that makes me feel better in comparison. I don't see my extended family often enough for them to treat me like that - I'm too much of a stranger, so they're more polite. I don't even know how they really feel about my work, and I'd prefer that it stay that way.<br /><br />My immediate family is full of its own issues. My father is a retired engineer who just can't wait to sit me down and either 1) enthusiastically show me some new idea of his regarding my field of study that is mildly interesting but irrelevant or not worth studying, or 2) go through my most recent paper or proposal and tell me what I did wrong, as if he knows my field better than I do. Regardless of what I say to either topic, he won't believe me when I tell him patiently and gently why his thoughts are reasonable but wrong. He clearly has some sort of mental block when it comes to listening to me explain something to him. I'm not sure why. Is it because I'm female? Or his little girl? Or is he just crotchety? Should I let him have his moment of glory or should I tell him how much these conversations irritate me?<br /><br />My mother and sister don't have careers. They respect mine well enough, but I know I'm not allowed to talk much about it around them. It would seem too much like bragging about something I have that they don't have. I patiently sit while they recount stories of silly things I did when I was little. I'm not allowed to recount stories of silly things my sister did, I'm pretty sure they'd gang up on me. <br /><br />I, too, try to take mini vacations within my vacation home.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04251975730093353942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68449174657042634532009-08-11T00:53:29.791-05:002009-08-11T00:53:29.791-05:00Wow, after reading all the comments here, I feel m...Wow, after reading all the comments here, I feel much more appreciative of my parents, who are both academics. They are not scientists and don't really understand the content of my work, but they get why I do it and can relate to both the stresses and the joys of the professorial life. I guess I'm lucky!Susan B. Anthonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29491031439653163712009-08-11T00:14:27.384-05:002009-08-11T00:14:27.384-05:00Being close to family has its ups and downs. My h...Being close to family has its ups and downs. My husband's dad was SO proud of him for working on a PhD, but other family members obviously thought it was stupid and a waste of time. I suspect those same family members believe that about my doctoral aspirations.<br /><br />I'm fortunate that my parents really have been supportive of me, and any relatives who may disagree (on my side of the family) are either incommunicado or too far away to care.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-57147181770130976232009-08-10T22:16:21.432-05:002009-08-10T22:16:21.432-05:00Interdisciplinary Introspective said, "Sounds...Interdisciplinary Introspective said, "Sounds like it is very common for high achievers to feel ostracized from their families."<br /><br />I think that it is possible that the majority have good relationships with their family, and so don't have much need to blog about it.<br /><br />Although my family is not much given to gathering together (the last time was a few years ago for my mother's funeral), we don't irritate each other the way FSP reports. Although I'm the only professor in the immediate family, the extended family has several professors, lawyers, doctors, engineers, school teachers, and other professionals, so it isn't a big deal.<br /><br />I think my father *would* like the family to gather more---he spent a month traveling this summer, visiting all his children, grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, as well as a few of his cousins. It is somewhat easier for a retired widower to travel than for all the family to come to him, so I suspect this will become an annual event until he gets too old to travel well.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14528751349030084532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-75824700227141858972009-08-10T21:01:40.357-05:002009-08-10T21:01:40.357-05:00"As for my research - nobody knows, nobody ca..."As for my research - nobody knows, nobody cares, nobody wants to hear. Last time I checked, my mother still thinks that I am in art history - the first major I picked and abandoned one term later, years and years ago."<br /><br />To the last anon: what is your research on? Hard to imagine that nobody knows or cares. Everything has some value and relate to something that other people (the public) can understand....like explaining it to a 5 yr old :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17732197920643399302009-08-10T20:58:45.930-05:002009-08-10T20:58:45.930-05:00I love my family alot, but coping strategies are d...I love my family alot, but coping strategies are definitely needed when one's path diverges from the expected norm. I love the idea of a vacation within a vacation- what a great idea! I definitely intend to implement this one.<br /><br />My in-laws are highly religious with very conformist views about women. On one hand, I am an enormous disappointment because I am not a full time mother, rarely clean my house (and worse, don't consider it important), and never attend church. On the other, when I graduated with my PhD a few years ago I was really touched that several members of the family congratulated me in a meaningful way, despite having very little idea of what I did or do. I realised I had on some level become a role model, which was very interesting. So perhaps we touch other people's lives in rather strange but unexpected ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-63671480284878620982009-08-10T19:44:03.894-05:002009-08-10T19:44:03.894-05:00Very interesting topic! I was feeling quite torn d...Very interesting topic! I was feeling quite torn due to a similar situation. I should have gone 'home' for the entire summer but just could not bear to do it - I spent a minimal amount of time over there, then ran back to the small, sleepy town in which my university is located (much to the surprise of everybody around me, since 'home' in my case is a big, great city with much renown). <br /><br />Thankfully, as I have started teaching, my mother can relate to that a bit. She quit nagging me about children, having reached the conclusion that I was doing my share of child-rearing with my undergrads already (in addition to living in my suitcases). To their credit, my UG do not need any rearing up on my part really, but I did not want to point that to her and have her go back to her discourse on yours truly needing a 'nice man to whom to bear some babies'. <br /><br />As for my research - nobody knows, nobody cares, nobody wants to hear. Last time I checked, my mother still thinks that I am in art history - the first major I picked and abandoned one term later, years and years ago. But I still like to stress some points about it. "Whatever it is that I do exactly and about which I will spare you the details" is a *real* job, in the strictest sense of the word, and as demanding if not more than that of everybody who is listening. And I bring proofs of that (usually in the form of a lot of crankiness and anxiety, looking extremely sleep-deprived, much work to do at home and long lists of tasks accomplished or needing to be done). Hardly pleasant, but it keeps everybody in check. I have had to deal with too many in-laws who just could not grasp the fact that my job does not end at 4PM, week-days only. <br /><br />They might still think that what I do, whatever it might be really, is useless or not worth the stress it brings me, but at least they keep their opinions to themselves. Or they sympathise and end up a bit happier about how their job really is not so bad in comparison. I would rather deal with their pity over my high level of stress due to a very demanding 'real job' and have them think I am bumming off. <br /><br />But yes - it is all very draining. I would hope to be able to go back 'home' to relax and enjoy some time with my family, but as it feels more and more like a chore, I just do not bother. Why should I?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-8001810624590684032009-08-10T19:01:58.297-05:002009-08-10T19:01:58.297-05:00I dont' get it....so you hate going to these f...I dont' get it....so you hate going to these family visits (and with good reason). And it sounds like your family doesn't really think much of you either. It sounds like they would be just fine and happy to not be associated with you. So...why are you going??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60003042142369496062009-08-10T17:54:49.891-05:002009-08-10T17:54:49.891-05:00Sounds like it is very common for high achievers t...Sounds like it is very common for high achievers to feel ostracized from their families. I can't say that my family actively denigrates me, but they definitely do not understand my choices. Still, my family is part of who I am, and who I am not. Children can tell the difference between right and wrong and between whom they should choose as role models and whom they should not. FSPs daughter shouldn't miss out on getting to know her grandmother and aunts (and cousins?) because a few of her uncles are ignorant. And, she should see her mother hold herself tall against the attitudes of her uncles. Unfortunately, FSPs daughter will likely have to battle similar attitudes as she grows.Grading Voyagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16334791440913287150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32163631182929733722009-08-10T17:10:25.111-05:002009-08-10T17:10:25.111-05:00I concur with anonymous @ 8/10/2009 01:50:00 PM. I...I concur with anonymous @ 8/10/2009 01:50:00 PM. I've limited to almost nothing my relationship to parts of my family (for different reasons than yours). It's not perfect but it's the solution I prefer. Every time we get back in touch together, I am reminded why. It helps that I leave in a different country. Family is overrated...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14398469736009003772009-08-10T16:57:01.281-05:002009-08-10T16:57:01.281-05:00I suggest preparing a Bingo board (like the Bullsh...I suggest preparing a Bingo board (like the Bullshit bingo) with all the things you are expecting to happen. You secretly keep score (although you may scream "Bingo!" or "Eureka!" when you get 5 in a row). Treat yourself for every bingo you got when you get home.EuropeanFemaleScienceProfessornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-46826176578790989712009-08-10T14:59:30.837-05:002009-08-10T14:59:30.837-05:00Ah, yes what constitutes a writer. My grandmother...Ah, yes what constitutes a writer. My grandmother loves to talk about her granddaughter the writer who wrote "a real book." The two granddaughters who who write obscure academic things of course don't count.<br /><br />Never mind that my work was quoted by the New York Times today, I'm not a real writer because I write for public administration and government types.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31871739798267201812009-08-10T13:50:10.032-05:002009-08-10T13:50:10.032-05:00So don't go to the reunion. Families are suppo...So don't go to the reunion. Families are supposed to love and support each other, not tear each other down and make each other feel worthless. Would you normally choose to hang out with these people if it weren't for the fact that they are blood related to you? Would THEY normally choose to hang out with you if you were not related? (well except for the fact that they seem to enjoy bullying you.) And if not, then why does the blood relation make any difference? <br /><br />If you were childless, would you still feel an obligation to visit your blood relatives? I don't see how it can be healthy for your daughter to witness her mother being disrespected. When she's an adult, she can decide whether or not she wants to forge relationships with them on her own terms, so I don't think that it is necessarily helping her to put yourself through this unnecessary resentment-building event right now.<br /><br />it's one thing to be open to dialogue with people you dislike and disagree with. But why spend time with people who look down on you and don't respect you?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-66324092882875727072009-08-10T12:42:14.060-05:002009-08-10T12:42:14.060-05:00All I can say is that you at least (sic!) have a h...All I can say is that you at least (sic!) have a husband and a child, right?<br /><br />If all else fails, you have at least done "your duty as a woman and become a mother". Others (i.e. me) has failed with this.... "and who cares about a degree in natural science anyway?! It's not like you are a proper MD or a priest".<br /><br />I wish you a good vacation within the vacation and hope you can shut out the talks from the uncles.<br /><br />(word verification is unche...)challhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10421219663804628119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-12874522058532598692009-08-10T12:15:46.584-05:002009-08-10T12:15:46.584-05:00I'm a MSP and its about the same for me. I fi...I'm a MSP and its about the same for me. I finally came to the conclusion, that 1) They don't understand it, 2) They don't try to understand it, and 3) They will never understand it. After 17 years of college-grad school-postdoc-tenure track, they still don't get it. Someone even pulled my step-dad aside and asked: When is he going to get a job? So being a MSP is a complete failure in life. Don't take this the wrong way, but I might actually be viewed as a FSP, like yourself. I'm not a real man! I've given up, and lately I've been getting snippy. I can't wait to go home this coming holiday season, because this time I can wield "I have tenure now" and start saying things like, "I'm glad I don't have to worry about my job like YOU must in this economy." That sounds immature and nasty, but I don't care anymore!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74359658961434004992009-08-10T12:04:33.691-05:002009-08-10T12:04:33.691-05:00I'll add my sympathies to the mix! And I, too...I'll add my sympathies to the mix! And I, too, would like to respond to the first Anonymous: it is useful to recognize that people like FSP's male family members are not some sort of weird, marginalized Other, as one might think if one spent all one's time in college towns, but a significant chunk of the population. FSP's daughter may find it easier to deal with such people later in her life if she is exposed to them now. Not to mention that learning to navigate family tensions is also a useful skill. Anyway, "home" for the daughter is with FSP and her husband, not with FSP's extended family.Dame Eleanor Hullhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06512884104691200975noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11308528291118750432009-08-10T11:45:20.633-05:002009-08-10T11:45:20.633-05:00My husband and I are both SPs, in the same field, ...My husband and I are both SPs, in the same field, and yet my male relatives only acknowledge that HE is a "Dr." and a professor. They think that I just teach a few hours a week and get paid too much for that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68556851964668603712009-08-10T11:19:10.238-05:002009-08-10T11:19:10.238-05:00Looking at the web sites of physical sciences depa...Looking at the web sites of physical sciences departments at the military service academies, it appears that a full professor may be the equivalent of a Lieutenant Colonel. That may impress them.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-54902415159761908092009-08-10T10:40:38.981-05:002009-08-10T10:40:38.981-05:00This was a pleasure to read - I am about to embark...This was a pleasure to read - I am about to embark on a similar trek, with my daughter. I definitely feel like the odd person out at "home",out of the loop on daily activities of cousins and nephews and nieces...and not really wanting to be part of that circuit. However, it is where I am from, and part of my daughter's heritage..with fewer bigots than FSP suggested.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-36886463852849108012009-08-10T10:05:07.450-05:002009-08-10T10:05:07.450-05:00Congratulations on being able to keep the hostilit...Congratulations on being able to keep the hostility to the minimum, and I'm not saying that sarcastically. I'd be ready to bite pieces off the dresser by the end of a day.<br /><br />Ask them about "The Family," have you heard of it? It's a secret religious organization, pretending to be Christian, to which all too many of our top pols belong.Azulaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00771800031142538095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4294283425249817742009-08-10T09:46:18.562-05:002009-08-10T09:46:18.562-05:00Don't you have some old friend with whom you c...Don't you have some old friend with whom you can chat in your home town? I generally enjoy chatting with couple of my old time friends when I visit home and enjoy hanging out with them. <br /><br />With all their shortcoming these relatives are part of real world, far from your scientific world where everyone understand your language. It will be similar mixture of people whenever you will go out of your comfortable academic atmosphere. Also maybe your world is too complicated for them to understand and appreciate. Good luck...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-89128383132300067942009-08-10T09:12:39.259-05:002009-08-10T09:12:39.259-05:00Well I have the same comments from some members of...Well I have the same comments from some members of my extended family: especially the taxpayer part, or being told that I am a lazy guy that only wants to become a state employee -which is what researchers are in France- so I can do nothing for the rest of my life. For some reasons, explaining that I have worked my way through an ultra-competitive system for the past ten years and am still not done yet, which should mean that I really love what I am doing rather than I just want to do nothing, doesn't seem to convince them: they believe that if I were "normal", I should go for the money in a company rather than wanting to be a poorly paid state employee. Loving his job is not a valid argument for these kind of people.<br /><br />But other nicer people have other weird ways of considering me, which can be fun:<br />- my parents for example are very proud, even though they can't really seem to understand what I am doing and what I want to do. I am not even talking about science here but more about "the small world", as D. Lodge says, that I live in.<br />- some other aunts or uncles think of me as some kind of Professor Calculus, which is a very common way in France of thinking about scientists when you don't actually know them. Well, we all know some scientists like that, but I am pretty sure I am not at all one of them. Actually it is a good excuse for me, since I am not really fond of family reunions: I can miss them or being quite distant when I go, and everybody will think I must be lost in my deep thoughts about changing the world (whereas I am just thinking about my next meal or how to find a quiet place to read my book without being disturbed). My brother, who doesn't really like these meetings either, but who is not a scientist, is often considered as an arrogant guy... <br /><br />Anyway, good luck.mixlamalicehttp://laviedemix.over-blog.comnoreply@blogger.com