tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post2920540972680273194..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Mrs. MeFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger66125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-51699247176115574112014-08-16T16:08:36.067-05:002014-08-16T16:08:36.067-05:00Professors aren't doctors. They're profess...Professors aren't doctors. They're professors. There's a difference.<br /><br />Doctors do things. Professors say things.<br /><br />It doesn't matter whether somebody is male or female.<br /><br />The things doctors do matter. The things professors say don't matter (except to other professors. That's why no one in the real world knows or cares about what professors think, but we do care about what doctors think. Professors live in their own little world, and they only care about earning approval from other professors. Doctors come into contact with the real world every day, and they care about doing things that matter.)<br /><br />If you're just a professor, don't mislead people into thinking you're a doctor. You're not.<br /><br />(And no, I don't care if someone's official title is "Dr. of Such-and-Such Topic at Such-and-Such University." That person is still a professor. He's not a doctor.)Aaron D. Franklinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-89731666366367599152014-07-04T02:06:42.460-05:002014-07-04T02:06:42.460-05:00I agree with Louis (above). I am female, not marri...I agree with Louis (above). I am female, not married, and am consistently referred to as Dr Lastname I. My place of work (a secondary school in England). But the one place where I am constantly referred to as Mrs is my local hospital. It is really beginning to irritate me! In the good old pre-doctorate days, I could easily correct people by telling them that it is "Miss Lastname",but in a hospital context, where titles seem to be so very important, I just cannot get anyone to stop calling me "Mrs". <br />If I manage to convince anyone at the hospital to call me "Dr Lastname" I then have to explain that this is an academic title, not a job description. <br />Why do people just default to Mrs?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-27174443108728568042013-01-16T08:52:56.050-06:002013-01-16T08:52:56.050-06:00I agree that women with Ph.D.s or any form of a do...I agree that women with Ph.D.s or any form of a doctorate for that matter should be addressed as Dr. and not Ms. nor Mrs. regardless of whether they are married or not. They earned that degree and that title. I also believe that the same goes for men. They should not be referred to as Mr. once they earned their doctorates. It is rude and insulting if you knowingly do that. Now don't get me wrong, in private life, a Ph.D./M.D./Ed.D., etc. will often expect friends, family, etc. to call him or her by his or her first name. However, in a wedding, bar/bat mitzvah, christening, etc. invitation or even a personal letter with a title, one should put the correct title on the envelope. For instance, if you are inviting your uncle and aunt to your son's bar mitzvah and they both hold doctorates. Let's say your uncle holds a Ph.D. and your aunt an M.D. The letter should be, Drs. James and Deborah Goldberg and NOT Mr. or Mrs. Goldberg nor Dr. and Mrs. James Goldberg or even Mr. and Dr. James Goldberg. You can offend them. My boss holds her Ph.D. in psychology. She is married and is referred to as Dr. E. and not Mrs. E anymore since she earned her Ph.D. 3 years ago. I earned mine with her and I no longer use Mr. I give my clients to have the option of calling me Dr. T. or by my first name, but I prefer my first name, but not Mr. T. What do you think of this? You are welcome to express your opinions.Louishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03482710986330031307noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-5814036606938192202011-04-24T17:23:39.785-05:002011-04-24T17:23:39.785-05:00@Anon at 4:19
It is actually a misconception of t...@Anon at 4:19<br /><br />It is actually a misconception of the left that VISA restrictions are based on racism.<br /><br />For instance, Japanese and Chinese people are part of the same racial stock...but a Japanese or Singaporean or S Korean passport allows (visa free) travel to most of Europe and America, but a Chinese passport doesnt. Conversely, Russians are white, but a Russian passport has less travel freedom than an Indian one.<br /><br />Visa free travel is based upon who is a part of which military alliance. The reason Europeans give visa free travel to Americans is not because of race, but because Western Europe is part of the American Empire. So are Japan, Singapore and S Korea. All the American Empire countries give visa free travel to US citizens and often to each other.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20090793835749534082011-04-24T17:14:46.407-05:002011-04-24T17:14:46.407-05:00@FSP Its late, but still...
"Hiring committe...@FSP Its late, but still...<br /><br />"Hiring committees at major research universities look for vision, creativity, ideas for the future, evidence of ability to work independently and manage a research group, collegiality, commitment to research and teaching, and so on."<br /><br />Well...out of these; "vision", "creativity" and "ideas for future" are usually strongly correlated with the current publication record. Performance-to-date is always a very good predictor of future performance...and what else do we have to go on.<br /><br />About evidence of "independence" and "managing a research group": in math most papers are 1-2 author (independence) and mathematics usually doesnt have research "groups"...or at least groups "headed" by anyone. <br /><br />Commitment to teaching: well I dont know about that one. At major research places, and I am talking about one of the most famous "dream" univs in the world here...it is likely to be a non concern and in any case, I dont remember anything stellar in teaching on part of my grad student colleague.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7723392451293051322011-04-23T16:19:24.719-05:002011-04-23T16:19:24.719-05:00Some time ago, as a PhD student, I got involved (a...Some time ago, as a PhD student, I got involved (at a conference) in a conversation with several people. At a certain moment, I asked the man sitting next to me what kind of research he did. His answer was: well, you know "firstname lastname" that gave a talk today? I am her husband. He immediately went on talking and left it to that but I vaguely suspected that "firstname lastname" - who is quite famous in her field - was actually married to another famous researcher whom she also collaborated and published with, so her very modest husband sitting next to me would actually have some credentials too. Back home I looked it up and that was correct. <br />If a woman would have done that, I would have interpreted it as her having internalized sexist mores. Since it was a man, I did not interpret it as such, but rather as him not wanting to talk about himself (or his research, which is the same as his wife's). <br />Anyway, this is just a fun anecdote. I do wonder though why women take their husband's last name in the first place, even when they have the opportunity not to do so. Where I live and work, I know of no woman that got her name changed after getting married. Also, and it might be different in ohter contexts, but in formal academia contexts, men and women are addressed the same way. Personally, I would find it very confusing if a woman suddenly announced a change of last name because she had gotten married! If then she insisted that we should call her by her "new" last name, clearly solidifying her being married (why is being married even relevant to your work environment in the first place), while at the same time insisting that her being married does not mean that we should call her Mrs.... Really, that looks utterly inconsistent! As I see it, taking your husband's last name is a sexist habit in itself. Granted, adopting a sexist habit yourself does not legitimate others to adopt other sexist habits. And I don't know if any of the other posters or the blogger changed their last name, but I see no condemnation of that practice. So I would like to ask: do you also keep your own name when you get married? Do you think sexist habits in the US about naming and adressing would diminish somewhat if women in the USA just stopped doing that? <br />Another thing, lately I see a lot of job and funding opportunities in the US where applicants must be US residents. However, I have not noticed nationality (or race or gender) requirements/preferences in European vacancies. (I can look it up if any of you insist). Also, VISA requirements and so on might not be examples of intentional racism on the part of academics, but they are definitely institutional forms of racism or at least make for very unequal opportunities. Though the relevant institution that discriminates is the US, not the field of academia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61882513559159154472011-04-19T21:11:38.351-05:002011-04-19T21:11:38.351-05:00Keep up the feminazism. The quota women become exp...Keep up the feminazism. The quota women become exposed eventually though...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25687439230360874082011-04-19T11:15:32.838-05:002011-04-19T11:15:32.838-05:00"With a view towards increasing the number of..."With a view towards increasing the number of female professors, ETH Zurich specifically encourages qualified female candidates to apply".<br /><br />Maybe because English is not your first language, you're missing the point. This does not say "we will hire a woman over a man". It says "we never get enough female applications; please send one".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-71731402664256268272011-04-18T16:10:01.173-05:002011-04-18T16:10:01.173-05:00ha ha ...I mean...you have never seen job adverts ...ha ha ...I mean...you have never seen job adverts that say specifically that women will be preferred?<br /><br />LOL! Super lol! ROTFL!<br /><br />Okay...here is a quote from the Math dept of ETH Zurich (go check their website)<br /><br />"With a view towards increasing the number of female professors, ETH Zurich specifically encourages qualified female candidates to apply".<br /><br />LOL! Super lol! ROTFL! <br /><br />And while we are at it, here is a quote from Janine Hummel:<br /><br />"Yes, two gender issues were very noticeable. Firstly, women tend to have a well developed sense of fairness."<br /><br />Who is Janine Hummel...she is just the PRESIDENT of the University of Gottingen. And where did she say these words? Interview to NATURE magazine on Apr 10, 2011! <br /><br />Who is doing the stereotyping and generalization?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41244373854311984532011-04-18T14:49:51.369-05:002011-04-18T14:49:51.369-05:00I'm a bit late commenting, but.... most job ad...I'm a bit late commenting, but.... most job ads these days include some phrase saying that among *equally*qualified* candidates, women (and/or the disabled, and/or ethnic minorities) will be given preference. Given the fact that people strongly disagree about what "qualified" means for a particular position (as noted by FSP above), I have always assumed that such statements are entirely meaningless and are included to satisfy some probably well-meaning but toothless affirmative action regulation. But maybe I am wrong -- I am still a grad student and have never seen a hiring committee in action.GradStudentAbroadnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20208858660105780162011-04-17T22:57:14.656-05:002011-04-17T22:57:14.656-05:00@ Anon 4/17/2011 01:50:00 PM:
"Sometimes...i...@ Anon 4/17/2011 01:50:00 PM: <br /><i>"Sometimes...it is hard to believe that some commenters here are actual academics with degrees."</i><br /><br />It's hard to believe that you are an academic with a degree too, going by what you've written so far.<br /><br />Can you please provide evidence for your claim from your earlier post that ".. 99% of all academic job advertisements say they would prefer a woman candidate to a man"<br /><br />Please provide a link to one such job ad. It should be easy for you to do if, as you say, 99% of all academic job ads are like this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30829043396099140942011-04-17T20:15:19.655-05:002011-04-17T20:15:19.655-05:00I think it's pretty clear why Anon at 4/17 01:...I think it's pretty clear why Anon at 4/17 01:50 PM isn't getting the recognition and positions he thinks he deserves: he's a jerk with an overinflated ego. He cleraly despises women, with a special place in his hearth reserved for white ones whose parents happen to be rich and who happen to dare do science. He also managed to inflict a blanket insult on several commenters above (they are not worth being academics because they supposedly misunderstood a point in his rant?!) Yeah, I am sure he's a charming personality in real life. News flash: no one will bend over backwards to propel a jerk, even if he's brilliant. If I were him, I would stop blaming these "undeserving women" for stealing the positions that were "rightfully" his <br />and instead try to find out how often his former advisors use words such as "arrogant" or "difficult to work with" to describe their experiences with him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4788661473581182032011-04-17T17:21:37.186-05:002011-04-17T17:21:37.186-05:00The Germans have the right idea. Everyone should ...The Germans have the right idea. Everyone should be introduced as "Mister Doctor Professor" or "Mizz Doctor Professor" as appropriate to their rank. <br /><br />By the way, cultures differ on this. The form "Mister Firstname" or "Mizz Firstname" is an honorific in the African-American community in the south.Doctor Pionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12513786840852469648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-22762505513059716862011-04-17T16:12:56.671-05:002011-04-17T16:12:56.671-05:00I am a full professor in the US, and knowing Europ...I am a full professor in the US, and knowing European customs makes me more offended when I am called Mrs. and male professors are called Professor by European scientists in a professional setting like a conference, including by those who know that I am a professor. When I have gently pointed out to some that I am actually a professor just like these men who are being addressed as professor, I have been told "Oh but in the US there are so many professors, and these men are real professors and leaders of big groups." Yes, that's nice, but so am I.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60200460343078604122011-04-17T15:24:12.062-05:002011-04-17T15:24:12.062-05:00A slightly tangential remark: be aware of local cu...A slightly tangential remark: be aware of local customs when calling someone (regardless of their gender) Dr. or Prof. The two forms of address have been used more or less interchangeably at the the US universities I've been affiliated with. That's not the case in some European countries (e.g. Germany, the Netherlands), where Prof. is reserved for people who have achieved the equivalent of full professor status in the US. Perhaps there are also examples where this trend is reversed and Dr. is the higher honorific.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39898480289843613752011-04-17T14:39:43.704-05:002011-04-17T14:39:43.704-05:00It's actually surprisingly hard. There are man...It's actually surprisingly hard. There are many definitions of 'most qualified; and it doesn't necessarily = 'most publications'. Hiring committees at major research universities look for vision, creativity, ideas for the future, evidence of ability to work independently and manage a research group, collegiality, commitment to research and teaching, and so on. I'm certainly not saying that all hiring committees make the best or most obviously fair decisions always, but number of publications is just one of many factors.<br /><br />Anon, I think that many commenters reacted negatively to your false statement that 99% of ads express preference for hiring women, and that made it difficult for some to take your other points seriously.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-26083940675877591162011-04-17T13:50:30.625-05:002011-04-17T13:50:30.625-05:00I am the one who expressed bitterness about women ...I am the one who expressed bitterness about women with 0 publications... (I am dying to name them ) being hired instead of qualified men.<br /><br />Sometimes...it is hard to believe that some commenters here are actual academics with degrees. I didn't once suggest that there is DISCRIMINATION against non-US academics. I just said that being a citizen of a third world country makes it difficult to TRAVEL across borders because of visa requirements and that automatically limits the ability to visit scientific events. It has nothing to do with attitude of academics. A Nobel Laureate from China would have more difficulty travelling than a waiter from America. Discrimination has nothing to do with it.<br /><br />All I was pointing out was the ridiculous nature of the effort to "level the field" by affirmative action. Sometimes you end up hiring the rich American child of millionaire doctors with 0 publications instead of the lower middle class kid from India. <br /><br />You will never be able to address all the reasons that could "unfairly" affect how much opportunity someone has had. How about you just look at the CVs and make a decision? Just pick the most qualified candidate who applied. How hard is that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79604764317752287592011-04-17T11:52:04.566-05:002011-04-17T11:52:04.566-05:00I'm called by my students as Dr. + Last name. ...I'm called by my students as Dr. + Last name. Same goes for my female colleagues, so I don't see any differences.Jameshttp://socsci.tau.ac.il/sec-dip/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31336703620130309652011-04-17T10:50:44.863-05:002011-04-17T10:50:44.863-05:00I am occasionally called "Mrs...lastname"...I am occasionally called "Mrs...lastname" at conferences or visits. It irks my ear. I have to go back a few generations in my family to find a woman who used "Mrs."<br /><br />In my very informal department, most faculty go by their first names. I introduce myself clearly as "Professor lastname" when I teach my undergrad course. I have heard students correct other students that by accident (and habit) call me by my first name! After they pass my class, then they can call me whatever they want. Many stick to "Prof lastname". Some don't. All ok.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17238985302511827832011-04-16T21:38:59.892-05:002011-04-16T21:38:59.892-05:00A while ago my fellow grad students and I were pre...A while ago my fellow grad students and I were preparing scripts for one of those department parties where you roast all of your professors and department personalities. We realized that, in the script and in our discussions, we were referring to all of the male professors by their last names (not Dr. Lastname, just Lastname), and all of the female professors by their first names. We decided that this was clearly sexist and changed it, but in retrospect I'm not so sure. It's true that we refer to most of our female faculty by first name, either to their face or when discussing them. (The only exception I can think of is one not-particularly-well-liked older professor who is always spoken of as Firstname Lastname.) On the other hand, while most of the male faculty is referred to as Lastname, there is a significant minority that we call by their first name, mostly younger and/or friendlier professors who have departmentally unique first names (it happened that none of these were in the skit we were writing at the time). It turns out that all of the women faculty other than the exception listed above fall within the set of younger, friendlier professors with departmentally unique first names, so what appeared at first appeared to be direct sexism I think can mostly be attributed to the history of the department (which doesn't seem to have hired many women before the past decade). Of course, this refers only to how we address professors in an extremely informal context; in a more formal professional setting I think we all can agree that everyone should be addressed by the same standards no matter how cool they seem to be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-45215642078152290202011-04-16T15:52:26.842-05:002011-04-16T15:52:26.842-05:00I call my teachers as Dr. X or Prof X.
I think it ...I call my teachers as Dr. X or Prof X.<br />I think it much more respectful.Davidhttp://James@post.tau.ac.ilnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-46769753558297725552011-04-16T15:13:14.393-05:002011-04-16T15:13:14.393-05:00[mansplain]
We like calling you "Mrs" be...[mansplain]<br />We like calling you "Mrs" because it acknowledges you already have a spouse. It helps us stop thinking about having sex with you. <br /><br />...Unless you're obviously receptive.<br /><br />..and we'll still stare at any exposed cleavage.<br /><br />[/mansplain]Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-75358615435243304912011-04-16T12:42:36.416-05:002011-04-16T12:42:36.416-05:00"99% of all academic job advertisements say t..."99% of all academic job advertisements say they would prefer a woman candidate to a man"<br /><br />I've NEVER seen an ad like that. <br /><br />Also, my experience is more in line with the other commenter who said in our field(s), foreign men have a BETTER chance of getting a faculty position than American women do. <br /><br />I HATE being called Mrs. BECAUSE I'M NOT MARRIED. It's just rude to make assumptions about anyone's personal life, but men don't have to worry about this because we don't have a separate prefix for married men.Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61432795610550393172011-04-16T09:07:48.266-05:002011-04-16T09:07:48.266-05:00I find the comments about possible discrimination ...I find the comments about possible discrimination against non-US academics puzzling, although I don't doubt that this occurs. It's just that the science and engineering departments of my MRU are well populated (and in some cases dominated) by non-US-born people, ~90% men. China and India are the best represented, but there are also quite a few professors from Japan, Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, and a few European countries. These men are highly respected for their expertise and research success, but perhaps this is different at other universities.<br /><br />But concerning the actual topic of the post, not some guy's personal bitterness about a woman who got a better job than he did even though he is more awesome.. I don't like being called Mrs. in a professional (or any) setting, but in the context in which non-US men used the term, I wouldn't be offended unless, as was described, men were introduced by their names only and the women were singled out for a different form of address. Perhaps there could be some advice given to conveners of sessions about how to do introductions? The simple advice of 'introduce men and women speakers in the same way' seems innocuous but may be needed in some cases. Not that anyone reads instructions..Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-48940548331829853702011-04-16T04:39:41.531-05:002011-04-16T04:39:41.531-05:00@anon 4/15/2011 04:31:00 PM : your female grad stu...@anon 4/15/2011 04:31:00 PM : your female grad student colleague is an exception.<br /><br />Since you are so bitter against all women because this one grad student unfairly got ahead of you, will it make you feel better to know that the vast majority of women in science are treated worse than you are? will it make you feel better to know that there are women students and postdocs who have better publication records than you (unless you believe you are the number one in your field) and are being treated worse than you? because in academic science the majority of women are treated worse than the majority of men so unless you for some reason fall into the extreme end of the bell curve you're probably within that majority of men who are getting ahead of the majority of women in your peer group. And there are female foreign scientists who have those visa and travel restrictions like you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com