tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post4232023363844432494..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: This I Do Not BelieveFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81863071778063993292010-04-14T05:36:07.798-05:002010-04-14T05:36:07.798-05:00A famous scientist came to speak to me at the firs...A famous scientist came to speak to me at the first conference I attended, in the first year of my Ph.D. I knew who he was, and was very excited that he approached me - I had anticipated to discuss science.<br /><br />The only thing he said was: "I guess you got your scholarship with Prof. Y because you have such a nice ass."<br /><br />That was only a few years ago.MarthaWantsToBeAScientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08040332378821487392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14791369905427673322010-01-14T07:23:13.415-06:002010-01-14T07:23:13.415-06:00In the past 10 years, I have only once heard a fel...In the past 10 years, I have only once heard a fellow professor comment on a student's appearance, and that was after she had already finished her PhD. The comment was fairly mild also--just that we would no longer know what fashionable clothing looked like, as she was always better dressed than the rest of the department.Kevinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14528751349030084532noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28012354455999289942010-01-12T20:39:13.008-06:002010-01-12T20:39:13.008-06:00This blog has described some instances of male pro...This blog has described some instances of male professors making comments to each other about female professor candidates' appearances.<br /><br />So I must ask FSP (and any commenters): <br /><br />Is it common for male professors to comment to each other about female students' appearances? I know there probably are a few odd creeps out there, but I wondered if it is really common and acceptable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58120446495200602822010-01-08T19:59:48.796-06:002010-01-08T19:59:48.796-06:00@ Cloud: "Anonymous @ 2:40- the latest excuse...@ Cloud: <i>"Anonymous @ 2:40- the latest excuse for the pay/advancement gap is that it is not sexism, it is motherhood. Apparently, childless women are now even with men in pay, but women with children are not. Therefore, it must be the children.</i>"<br /><br />I'm the Anon@2:40.<br /><br />but I am not a mother! I have friends who are also childless women and who also experience this glass ceiling. <br /><br />Maybe they assume we are mothers (just because we are women, the assumption is we are all mothers too by default). Maybe such an assumption is not sexism at all - maybe all men are also assumed to be fathers by default too. I.e. it is assumed that everyone is married with kids because that's the norm. Whatever, that's a whole other form of discrimination. Let's call it "singles discrimination"? <br /><br />I think that if you are young, it is advantages to be single because employers will think you are not tied down and so you are a better and more ambitious worker. '<br /><br />But if you are older, or in mid-career stage I should say, then it's the reverse. Now it's an advatnage to be married-with-kids because now employers will see you as being stable and sane and responsible etc. And if you're not married-with-kids at this stage in career/age, then employers see you as being immature or irresponsible or otherwise not normal and have a bias against you.<br /><br />That's just my theory based on my personal experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34214000139070838482010-01-08T11:18:33.560-06:002010-01-08T11:18:33.560-06:00... says the angry feminist.... says the angry feminist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43823939663296273252010-01-08T07:20:41.472-06:002010-01-08T07:20:41.472-06:00John V, in his day Faraday was famous for giving r...John V, in his day Faraday was famous for giving rock concert like public lectures about science, a very major BIEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-66491424670195175932010-01-07T20:34:02.518-06:002010-01-07T20:34:02.518-06:00Insert the words a few in each of those lines and ...Insert the words a few in each of those lines and they become true.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37764372749411578022010-01-07T19:28:27.864-06:002010-01-07T19:28:27.864-06:00I think FSP can have it both ways. Anonymously on...I think FSP can have it both ways. Anonymously on her blog, she writes about many interesting issues related to doing science. Some of these happen to be related to gender issues. And on the other hand, in her real life, she is a successful, reasonably well known scientist (I assume). Who probably spends a reasonable amount of time making the NSF happy by doing various broad impacts. She doesn't need to blog to do even more broad scientific impacts.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56308147528469007492010-01-07T18:55:37.845-06:002010-01-07T18:55:37.845-06:00I'm always amused when a complaint arises that...I'm always amused when a complaint arises that, if someone (FSP) is doing something so well, she must be neglecting everything else.<br /><br />Perhaps a better POV is that if FSP can handle this difficult topic with such tact and effectiveness, imagine how easily she is probably dispatching science problems.<br /><br />Faraday is an excellent example of a scientist who tackled a wide range of fundamental, applied, and societal problems, but not a good example of myopic nerdiness triumphing over dabblers.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38876647512146620512010-01-07T18:14:56.642-06:002010-01-07T18:14:56.642-06:00@Prosaica- I don't disagree. I breastfed my fi...@Prosaica- I don't disagree. I breastfed my first until she was 23 months, and anticipate doing something similar with my second. I wouldn't trade the experience for any supposed benefit the extra time would give me. I read while I breastfeed (and while I pump so that someone else can feed my daughter while I'm at work). Blogs, journal articles, infuriating Economist articles...<br /><br />@anonymous- I think FSP probably writes about her science in peer reviewed journals. You must have more free time than I do. If I found all Economist articles as infuriating as the one on women in the work force, I'd stop reading it. I wonder why you keep reading here?Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14620283224256161022010-01-07T18:02:52.772-06:002010-01-07T18:02:52.772-06:00Amen! And you can (and probably do) write about yo...Amen! And you can (and probably do) write about your Real Science (tm) discoveries in the International Journal of Real Science. This is just your blog, as I understand it. Keep on trucking!<br /><br />As they say over here: you can judge the necessity of feminist words by the loudness of the screams you hear from the men.EuropeanFemaleScienceProfessornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28485187402768416612010-01-07T17:41:25.240-06:002010-01-07T17:41:25.240-06:00Dear 3:48, the problem is that the message I get ...Dear 3:48, the problem is that the message I get from this blog is that a FSP spends more time in complaining against MSP rather than doing science. <br /><br />FSP could give a positive message by writing about her discoveries, or at least about her field.<br /><br />Faraday is appreciated for his achievements, not because he complained against the discriminations he faced for being poor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-45712929196211382552010-01-07T16:29:16.769-06:002010-01-07T16:29:16.769-06:00lots of funny stuff on FSP's web page,:
http:...lots of funny stuff on FSP's web page,:<br /><br />http://www.gophergas.com/fun/womendrivers/<br /><br />speaking of perhaps unwarranted stereotypes.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34530578292837350122010-01-07T15:48:49.109-06:002010-01-07T15:48:49.109-06:00Dear 2:25
Here's a stat for you. If FSP were ...Dear 2:25<br />Here's a stat for you. If FSP were to talk about her "Science Professor research" she would probably give away her identity because there are SO FEW WOMEN PROFESSORS in her field!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58127048042000644092010-01-07T14:25:26.762-06:002010-01-07T14:25:26.762-06:00Dear FSP: you complain so seriously about the use ...Dear FSP: you complain so seriously about the use of gender-neutral words, and now you make fun of men who die working? In case you want to have more sad fun, here is another statistics: in boat accidents men die more frequently than females (normalized to their relative ratio). <br /><br />Please complain about the gender-inequality of "Women and child first".<br /><br />Otherwise, if you accept a suggestion, after many Feminist posts, it would be interesting to read something about your Science Professor research.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41778246008932096292010-01-07T14:08:51.350-06:002010-01-07T14:08:51.350-06:00@Cloud: you can choose to bottle feed, but you mis...@Cloud: you can choose to bottle feed, but you miss on the physical pleasure. At least that's how I felt it. OTOH, introducing solids at 5-6 months is natural to many kids (again, it was to mine). <br /><br />Also, there's a lot of work you can do while breastfeeding a child (mind you, I'm a theoretician). I even went to faculty meetings and breastfed here. I must admit that I found doing anything useful while breastfeeding the twins impossible.prosaicanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29443788557965789212010-01-07T13:58:38.964-06:002010-01-07T13:58:38.964-06:00FSP: the link is utterly priceless!FSP: the link is utterly priceless!sibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940889898844807214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-35500719542888222952010-01-07T13:25:44.827-06:002010-01-07T13:25:44.827-06:00More than 80% of people who die while working are ...<a href="http://www.gophergas.com/fun/womenlivelonger/" rel="nofollow">More than 80% of people who die while working are males.</a>Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-51329330162846102562010-01-07T13:13:39.837-06:002010-01-07T13:13:39.837-06:00me again (anon at 10:41)
"Motherhood, not se...me again (anon at 10:41)<br /><br />"Motherhood, not sexism, is the issue: in America, childless women earn almost as much as men, but mothers earn significantly less."<br /><br />Well, that explains it. We earn *almost* as much as men - despite the fact that selection pressure means that this group includes a much higher fraction of women ambitious enough to have put their family life on hold in order to advance in their career - and who should therefore theoretically earn more than the average male. (I am not implying that women with kids are unambitious - merely that the fraction who are happy with a lower-stress/lower-pay job is higher in the with-kids group than the no-kids group. Nor am I implying that childless women should make more than mothers - simply that our current economic system is set up to reward those who work extra. At least, that's the argument that men use to justify themselves being paid more. Seems like it's broken, doesn't it?)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-62298252537739159102010-01-07T13:04:29.644-06:002010-01-07T13:04:29.644-06:00biogirl, maybe the truth is that women "discr...biogirl, maybe the truth is that women "discriminate" against steel industry and prefer safer and more pleasant works?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-379775379177709852010-01-07T11:11:59.147-06:002010-01-07T11:11:59.147-06:00@ Anonymous @ 3.01 pm: May be because the industri...@ Anonymous @ 3.01 pm: May be because the industries that these males die at work, inherently discriminate against hiring women?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-76824822506959707662010-01-07T11:11:54.964-06:002010-01-07T11:11:54.964-06:00@anon at 03:01:00 AM:
"More than 80% of peopl...@anon at 03:01:00 AM:<br />"More than 80% of people who die while working are males.<br /><br />Is this is a more serious discrimination than all the ones you are complaining about?"<br /><br />..well, the data are debate worthy only if you first normalize by the appropriate weights for how many of the relevant workers were men/women.<br /><br />(rolls eyes).sibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01940889898844807214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37001048861292683012010-01-07T03:01:42.153-06:002010-01-07T03:01:42.153-06:00More than 80% of people who die while working are ...More than 80% of people who die while working are males.<br /><br />Is this is a more serious discrimination than all the ones you are complaining about?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34917898791620518732010-01-07T00:17:41.237-06:002010-01-07T00:17:41.237-06:00You know, if you add, "I'm just joking, w...You know, if you add, "I'm just joking, where's your sense of humor?!" maybe the trolls will suddenly all think this is funny and laugh. If not, maybe they'll finally have an inkling of what it's like to be a woman.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18504682897921695312010-01-06T23:43:12.203-06:002010-01-06T23:43:12.203-06:00@Hope- the fact that my situation is not the norm ...@Hope- the fact that my situation is not the norm is, I think, partly due to the sexism inherent in our culture. It is assumed that women will shoulder more of the "home work", and lo and behold, that is what happens. But there is absolutely no reason why that has to be the case. I do not judge anyone's life decisions. Obviously, each individual woman has to make the decisions that make her happiest. However, when many people are making the same sorts of decisions, I tend to think there is an underlying reason. And I think that the underlying reason for the fact that women are far more likely to take a career hit than men when kids enter the scene is far more cultural than it is biological anymore. And I think our tendency to "blame" motherhood for the continuing inequalities in the work place makes it far too easy for men to tell themselves there is no problem and not make the changes that would lead to greater equality.<br /><br />My info on pay equity for women without children comes from the most recent Economist. Here is a quote from their leader: "Motherhood, not sexism, is the issue: in America, childless women earn almost as much as men, but mothers earn significantly less." (This quote is also what got me peeved on this topic- because it IS still sexism if fathers don't take the same hit.) I suspect the actual numbers are in the article that supports the leader, but I haven't bothered to read that yet. The leader made me mad enough.<br /><br />I don't have a source on hand for men's pay, so I don't know for certain that fathers earn more. I just vaguely remember reading that somewhere. It is usual in these sorts of comparisons to control for age and/or career stage, so I don't think any difference, if there is one, can be attributed to fathers being older than men without children.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.com