tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post626661013318541689..comments2024-03-14T04:53:49.513-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Sundays with Your AdvisorFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger50125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-52871047422610031652011-06-15T08:28:17.131-05:002011-06-15T08:28:17.131-05:00My lab is huge, my advisor comes in on the weekend...My lab is huge, my advisor comes in on the weekends to do his bench work. I always take this opportunity to get some face time alone with him to discuss my work because he's more relaxed and isn't multitasking about administrative stuff as much.<br /><br />That said I've never scheduled anything with him except once on a saturday morning way back when I was rotating with the lab. Usually he just prefers his students to drop by. If he's in the middle of something, he'll come find us when he's done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-2187084086082977982011-06-11T13:55:22.277-05:002011-06-11T13:55:22.277-05:00I love these responses. You've really found a ...I love these responses. You've really found a question that throws the whole question of work-life balance into relief.<br /><br />1. Creepiness. Eh, need more info for this. Are they meeting at a cocktail bar? Busy student centre?<br /><br />2. Power play. Again, depends on the norm of the department. Probably yes, if the student had to ask for regular meetings as if it were a special favour.<br /><br />As a grad student, I would have been glad to have regular Sunday evening meetings with my advisor. The few meetings I ever did manage to have with my advisor were useless, as she was constantly making a production of how Busy and Important she was--answering the phone every thirty seconds (because she was expecting an International Call!), running out of the office if she saw a colleague pass, or just complaining about her husband. <br /><br />A meeting on Sunday evening would have been a great time to work without distractions, and would have given me focus and energy for the week's work ahead. <br /><br />Frankly, doing a bit of work Sunday evening doesn't seem like a big deal to me anyway. It's just the evening, not the whole day. Aren't most people gearing up for the week then anyway? I suppose if I really resented the intrusion on my personal life I'd take off early on Fridays and call it good.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-44194360087581028352011-06-04T17:31:59.546-05:002011-06-04T17:31:59.546-05:00My first response to this question was "Insuf...My first response to this question was "Insufficient Information!"<br /><br />It is an unusual situation to have regularly scheduled meetings outside the usual working hours for the local culture, but not an immediate red flag. We did not hear, for example, whether the student had strong scheduling constraints that cause rejection of the first 10 times the adviser proposed.<br /><br />The only thing here that struck me as really strange was that the student had to ask for a weekly meeting. I require any student who works with me to meet with me individually once a week, even if our weekly meeting ends up being little more than "too busy as a TA this week to get anything done, sorry".<br /><br />An adviser who has so many advisees that they can't all have individual meetings has too many. (We have some faculty like that.) There is a major flaw in our funding system for grad students, that funding is tied to research grants, and that big research grants often go to people who spend all their time writing grant proposals and none of their time working with grad students. So that most of the grad student support money is tied to faculty who don't have the time to teach the students properly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29791088178102494682011-06-03T22:04:05.035-05:002011-06-03T22:04:05.035-05:00the only reason I think it's creepy is because...the only reason I think it's creepy is because usually professors do not hold official office hours on the weekend thus if this advisor and student are having meetings on sunday night they are likely to be the only ones in a deserted building or department. That's why it's creepy.<br /><br />If for some reason the entire department or university treated Sunday as a regular working day and thus the department was full of people on a regular basis on sunday, then I wouldn't have a problem with it because I would assume that people who work on sundays will get another day off as their official personal day. (like people who work in hospitals, restaurants and other industries that normally conduct business on weekends..for example as a teenager I worked in fast food restaurants and was always scheduled to work sundays but that's cos fast food restaurants area always busy on sundays). So it's not the encroachment on personal time that I object to because I assume the student will be allowed to take personal time on a different day. <br /><br />It's the fact that no one else is guaranteed to be around at the time, and in fact it's likely that few people will be around and that hallway lights may be turned off, which makes it creepy. And furthermore that the advisor would demand that this be the meeting time, under these circumstances, is more creepy.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-49814592212232820852011-06-03T16:06:41.731-05:002011-06-03T16:06:41.731-05:00Needs more context, but yes, it is odd.
One prof...Needs more context, but yes, it is odd. <br /><br />One professor in my department schedules class recitations on Sundays, and I could never figure out why he does it. Such a hassle for students -- especially for students with families and students living off campus.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38952030399864151502011-06-03T15:53:34.231-05:002011-06-03T15:53:34.231-05:00Definitely a power trip. I worked for a PI who tho...Definitely a power trip. I worked for a PI who thought he was So Big And Important that he would call us at home to "discuss" issues whenever he felt like it - especially in the middle of the day on weekends.<br /><br />But try and pin him down on a time to meet? You'd be pushed off again and again as More Important Things Than You came to his attention. <br /><br />Barring lab explosion, building evacuation, or dean of college (or possibly intellectual property laywers) on the phone, I think it's respectful to make (and keep!) appointments when they are convenient for both parties.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-927114932540884612011-06-03T14:25:09.666-05:002011-06-03T14:25:09.666-05:00nowadays (nearing end of grad school) my meetings ...nowadays (nearing end of grad school) my meetings with my adviser are always adhoc - I ask him if I need help with something, he asks me if he wants an update. Becase of this, we often meet at odd times, including Saturday and Sunday midday. I usually tend to work sunday/sat morning anyway (though it's more like work/cat videos as per your example). I like the weekend meetings best, because my adviser is usually a lot less frazzled and much more relaxed. I find he's more able to focus on what I am saying. Much better than 4PM on e.g. Thursday when he's had 4 other meetings that day...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31591646008607178592011-06-03T00:43:24.081-05:002011-06-03T00:43:24.081-05:00If it's not too off-topic, kittens-on-roomba i...If it's not too off-topic, kittens-on-roomba is my favorite cat video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTxW3GWZ5hIPostdocnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-67198795238011102212011-06-02T22:41:50.163-05:002011-06-02T22:41:50.163-05:00I agree with the majority here who say that it is ...I agree with the majority here who say that it is inappropriate for the advisor to expect the student to meet regularly on sunday night. What especially resonates for me are the comments that this is power play by the advisor (more so because of the "grim" context.)<br /><br />Also, more cat vids, please! (Surprised no one has mentioned that yet!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-10794551956760162112011-06-02T20:32:41.813-05:002011-06-02T20:32:41.813-05:00Here's the question that pops into my mind abo...Here's the question that pops into my mind about this situation - is the advisor really taking the student seriously if they will only make time to meet on a weekend? <br /><br />I understand that academic work spills out into all hours of every day (it certainly did for me when I was a grad student), but there is still such thing as a work week and official work things happen then. I'd be afraid that if my advisor was shunting me off to a weekend, that he didn't think I was worthy of precious weekday/workday time. That, for me, would be the biggest red flag of all.<br /><br />But my Ph.D. is in a social science, so maybe things are different in the 'hard' sciences...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-64379131909248921462011-06-02T20:14:55.520-05:002011-06-02T20:14:55.520-05:00I work with an incredibly busy PI and while email ...I work with an incredibly busy PI and while email exchange 24/7 are the norm (with some of the best exchanges happening in the wee hours of the morning when we are both working in our own environments) weekend meetings would be considered completely out-of-bounds, let alone regular weekend meetings. Boundaries are important. This adviser is out of line.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31855389313030431812011-06-02T17:00:59.765-05:002011-06-02T17:00:59.765-05:00The only reason I would find this weird is because...The only reason I would find this weird is because the student and the advisor have had rocky relationship and these are "scheduled" meetings. <br /><br />Otherwise, i really don't see the problem with having meetings with an advisor outside of "campus/school/etc". This is most likely because I've been spoiled in the sense that I've had very good relationships with my advisors and mentors (both male and female). I've had meetings at their houses, over dinner, family dinners, etc. I've been at their houses over holidays. At night and during the day on weekdays and weekends. None of these meetings would have happened if either one of us was uncomfortable. It just depends on the relationship<br /><br />If you're uncomfortable, you should say so.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74512577969119699952011-06-02T16:16:26.436-05:002011-06-02T16:16:26.436-05:00I see a good deal of consideration for the religio...I see a good deal of consideration for the religious perspective of the advisor, and none for that of the student.<br /><br />I'm a Christian, and have, since undergraduate days, refrained from regular scheduled academic work on Sundays. I don't mind if others work on Sundays, but they'll do it without me.<br /><br />In the (uncertain) event that the student has some conscientious problem with working on Sundays, the advisor's lack of consideration for this is reprehensible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37294662827489569142011-06-02T15:43:41.093-05:002011-06-02T15:43:41.093-05:00My PhD advisor was often at work on the weekends a...My PhD advisor was often at work on the weekends and many evenings. I never scheduled a regular meeting wth him on weekends but many times, we did meet on the weekends. Sometimes the equipment we used had more available time on weekends. He didn't have kids and was unusual in being around all weekend in my department. It was never creepy. It really depends on the situation. As a PI now I would not schedule a routine meeting with my students on Sunday but I have had deadline-driven weekend meetings with students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47616149629766921012011-06-02T15:24:26.211-05:002011-06-02T15:24:26.211-05:00Some weekend times are unavoidable but regular Sun...Some weekend times are unavoidable but regular Sunday meetings would probably have made me less efficient for the week so I would ask to change the timing. <br /><br />One thing not mentioned but of possible concern is that depending on the timing of the meeting (after dark?), the campus safety levels, etc. this meeting could expose the student to an extra level of danger because buildings and parking lots on campuses are often deserted on Sunday evenings. It may not be a big risk but in some places it is and it's one that the advisor's scheduling is forcing the student to assume. As an advisor that would concern me - safety trumps productivity every time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-9544215606051706842011-06-02T14:43:18.534-05:002011-06-02T14:43:18.534-05:00Similar to "Moom", my initial response w...Similar to "Moom", my initial response was that the prof may have a religion that doesn't hold Sunday in same regard as most Christians. During my PhD, my PI was in every Saturday morning from 8:00 am to noon like clockwork. The benefit was that if you needed the additional time, you knew you could catch him and have time for a lengthy private discussion. And to be honest, it worked in reverse such that if you wanted to avoid him, you wouldn't show up until the afternoon when you knew he would be gone! In my career now, I deal with colleagues around the world (Australia, Europe and North America) and as such have experienced teleconferences late at night or very early morning and even on weekends (Australia's Monday is my Sunday). I find that we need to make these sacrifices in order for us to meet, yet at the same time, all members are cognizant of the time and as such ensure the meetings are effective and that time is not wasted. I don't find the Sunday evenings creepy. If the student feels that if in the end they are benefiting from the meeting time without experiencing hardship, then continue with the Sunday evenings.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-90626258876700035492011-06-02T14:07:14.612-05:002011-06-02T14:07:14.612-05:00You know there's something wrong with the syst...You know there's something wrong with the system when people fear that boundaries like no meetings after 11.30PM or before 5.30AM might be considered "not motivated enough"...Postdocnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-55805505482063507052011-06-02T13:15:19.954-05:002011-06-02T13:15:19.954-05:00I had a regular Saturday morning meeting with my r...I had a regular Saturday morning meeting with my research advisor as an undergrad, and I actually kind of appreciated it. It meant we could block out a full two hours together and not have to worry about the meeting that came before or after. We were both much sharper because of this, and I felt like we were very productive. I have to admit it did seem a bit creepy sometimes though, to be meeting my advisor on the weekend, but it was so effective I wasn't about to stop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81232027099279275432011-06-02T12:23:49.125-05:002011-06-02T12:23:49.125-05:00In the original post, FSP says that the student re...In the original post, FSP says that the student requested regular meetings as part of a plan to improve a grim situation, and that this situation has mostly gotten better. That, to me, suggests that maybe for this student and this advisor, that time slot works somehow. Maybe they both like to work weekends. Maybe they both like meeting outside the 9-5 when there are so many other people on campus making demands on time and attention. Maybe they work the night shift because they are studying nocturnal creatures. Maybe they are both from a country whose weekend is Friday and Saturday rather than Saturday and Sunday. We don't have the context to know this, but if it works for them, great.<br /><br />Or maybe the student hates this and only does it as a concession to an inconsiderate and/or creepy advisor. We lack the context to know this, so I will refrain from making assumptions.<br /><br />I do know that I tend to be most productive in the evening, so I spend many evenings in the office, and use 9-5 to respond to all the people making demands on my time and asking me to put out fires. Around 5pm I take a deep breath, read papers, watch some Youtube, and then after that relaxation I start to feel productive, and I can get a good work groove for a few hours. Sometimes I meet with a research student (who has a busy daytime schedule and is also a nocturnal creature) in the evening. It's easier for me to have a productive discussion of research when I just finished relaxing rather than right after a meeting on something else, and when I have no urgent appointment looming after this one.<br /><br />As to weekends, I often work on Sunday afternoons and early evenings in the campus Starbucks. Some quarters I see more students there (Sunday seems to be Homework Day, and the Starbucks is attached to the library) than I do in my office hours. So it works out well, and I get to work in a place with windows and carpets and the aroma of coffee, instead of my ugly windowless office with a tile floor.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-83594069410369912262011-06-02T12:21:42.434-05:002011-06-02T12:21:42.434-05:00Insisting on Sunday nights would be creepy if the ...Insisting on Sunday nights would be creepy if the student didn't like the schedule and the advisor was inflexible, particularly if there were not going to be a lot of people around then.<br /><br />More likely (given how little we know of the background), the advisor just cluelessly threw out the awkward time, and the student was too timid to bargain for a better time.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58469621860539597292011-06-02T12:12:53.536-05:002011-06-02T12:12:53.536-05:00You didn't say *where* the meetings would take...You didn't say *where* the meetings would take place. Depending where (and who else, if anyone, would be around), that could make it creepy or not. <br /><br />I'm a grad student, but also an adult. Having worked in the "real world," I understand the value of not working on evenings and weekends and I try hard to work a 40-hour 9am-5pm work week as a grad student.<br /><br />If one of my co-advisors suggested a regular weekend or evening meeting, I would laugh and say "that's not going to work for me. Let's come up with another time." Simple as that. If an advisor can't come up with two half-hour sessions per month during regular business hours (barring weird situations), then the "advisor" is not able to be a good advisor and should be dumped.<br /><br />Both of my advisors are rather senior, very busy, and travel a lot. And yet both are still accessible to me. With one I have weekly meetings that are frequently shuffled around due to his high-level meetings and traveling. With the other, we "meet" on an as-needed basis, which is often over Skype. Both always make time for me within a week if I need it. The first has a similar work pattern as me and doesn't work evening or weekends either. The second is a workaholic and works all hours; we rarely meet on weekends, but only if I request to do so -- usually due to an upcoming deadline. The couple times he's suggested a weekend meeting, I've declined and moved it to the following week or else had the necessary conversation by email.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-85616760309017984482011-06-02T10:45:13.168-05:002011-06-02T10:45:13.168-05:00One could read the request to have Sunday night me...One could read the request to have Sunday night meetings as saying, "Oh, yeah? You want to take up my time on a regular basis? Let's see how much you REALLY want to."<br /><br />THAT'S what strikes me as icky about the situation.<br /><br />Of course, maybe he is just oblivious to "normal" days and times. For me, though, Sunday night is often (extended) family time, and I would ask to find a different time.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20929720929187576702011-06-02T10:29:57.111-05:002011-06-02T10:29:57.111-05:00FSP, I understand that some weekend/night meetings...FSP, I understand that some weekend/night meetings are unavoidable. However, don't you and the other commentors think there must be some limits on this? I think that any meetings after 11.30PM or before 5.30AM are inappropriate. Is this unreasonable? Lazy? Not motivated enough?simjockeynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-33264575774771011442011-06-02T10:24:31.833-05:002011-06-02T10:24:31.833-05:00As a faculty member, I'd be fine with an occas...As a faculty member, I'd be fine with an occasional weekend meeting if a deadline were approaching or if a student were in some kind of crisis that needed immediate assistance. I would never schedule a regular weekly meeting on the weekend though. If my time as a faculty member was so tight that I literally had zero time available during the week for a regular student meeting, I feel like that would be a red flag that I'm over-extended and need to reassess how many students I'm working with and what my other responsibilities are. <br /><br />I also agree with the first comment from anne re: it being troubling that the student had to request a regular meeting. I had a situation with my first advisor as a grad student where he suddenly was unavailable for regular meetings and it significantly harmed my productivity and our relationship. I ended up switching advisors to someone who actually made the effort to work with students, despite her insanely busy schedule.<br /><br />Re: the general level of creepiness, I have to ask one additional question: where are they meeting? That would impact how creepy it seems to me overall.<br /><br />Re: does he have a family or not, etc. I have a small child and when I work on the weekends, it's usually in the evening after he's gone to bed. If I had to meet with a student on a weekend, after 8pm is probably the time slot that would be most available.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-52998926819799563592011-06-02T10:14:43.462-05:002011-06-02T10:14:43.462-05:00It wouldn't concern me. Maybe some people real...It wouldn't concern me. Maybe some people really do think of weekends as sacrosanct. Especially since I finished coursework, though, one day is pretty much like the next. I meet with my advisor every Thursday for lunch, but if he wanted Saturday or Sunday times it'd be fine by me.<br /><br />It seems a bit silly to say that because <i>you</i> do independent work on Sunday nights, that means that no one should meet Sunday nights.<br /><br />There are a wide diversity of work styles in academe, and if there isn't an actual conflict going on (the student wants to preserve weekend time, the advisor doesn't care), and there is no actual creepiness, I see no reason to pass judgment.Sam R.noreply@blogger.com