tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post714481934269636247..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: My Revised CVFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-65263412991595515322009-12-03T13:56:12.934-06:002009-12-03T13:56:12.934-06:00You have no idea how long and bloated a CV can be ...You have no idea how long and bloated a CV can be until you get one from an engineer who consults and does research. Got one once that easily exceeded 50 pages, and no, the typeface was not 14 point.<br /><br />Next year, we limited everyone to five pages and got a lot of bleatingEliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7015212062062055772009-12-03T01:14:09.937-06:002009-12-03T01:14:09.937-06:00FSP, this post cracked me up.
The comments are a...FSP, this post cracked me up. <br /><br />The comments are also funny- I'm always amused when a new person shows up and picks a fight with CPP. In this case I agree with CPP and Candid Engineer. But I don't like to split hairs. 99.9% and I start asking "how many sig figs? Oh, then it's 100."<br /><br />I recently gave a talk that fit several categories here, and also coincidentally turned out to be a university that has no women faculty in my field. That was really strange for me. I deliberately picked my grad school and postdoc universities based on their higher ratios of women professors than the average. But I did not think that there were still places with NONE who actually have significant funding. I think this could be the basis for legal action for title IX enforcement: no more funding for hiring men until they hire some women. Hard to believe it's 2009.Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37842922524692262582009-12-02T22:58:38.398-06:002009-12-02T22:58:38.398-06:00"Does the fact that you only got through A-N-..."Does the fact that you only got through A-N-G-R mean that you're not angry enough to leave your current locale after all? Or perhaps Y is coming up in December...."<br /><br />ONE LETTER IS MISSING! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-D_S7WOnjgAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58623522531710546582009-12-02T22:30:53.118-06:002009-12-02T22:30:53.118-06:00Does the fact that you only got through A-N-G-R me...Does the fact that you only got through A-N-G-R mean that you're not angry enough to leave your current locale after all? Or perhaps Y is coming up in December....Dr. Jekyll and Mrs. Hydehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005652406299754952noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-82576957416528424552009-12-02T21:48:10.687-06:002009-12-02T21:48:10.687-06:00I understand that a CV is to be a record of your p...I understand that a CV is to be a record of your professional achievements and noteworthy/important activities. You do not list every single thing that you have ever done, only those that are important. For example, do you list your manuscripts which got rejected for publication?? probably not even though it was something that you did as part of your professional life and probably spent a lot of time on. Similarly while you do list your grant support (and your funding track record is very important to your CV), do you list your grant proposals which didn't get funded?? Do you list patent applications which in the end didn't get patented?? Probably not. <br /><br />So this means we do all pick and choose what does not go on the CV, clearly we don't all include every single thing we've ever done because not everything you do in your professional life can be classified as an achievement or as noteworthy or important. <br /><br />Thus on the subject of job interview talks. If it goes on the CV, that means you considered it an achievement or important. I think the importance of job interview talks is relative to the person.<br /><br />If you are a new grad student who has only ever given a couple of talks or none at all, then a job interview talk is - in relation to YOUR situation - important so I think it's OK to list that. If it's the only talk you've ever given, it's pretty darn significant to your professional life.<br /><br />If you are a professor who has given many talks in many venues (conferences, symposia, invited talks at those, departmental talks etc) then I think the relative importance to your professional life of job-interview-talks that you gave back when you were a grad student, greatly diminishes and thus to include them on your CV is padding the CV. Just my opinion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-9896744482706532542009-12-02T21:04:36.876-06:002009-12-02T21:04:36.876-06:00Why would I want a medal for outclassing vermin su...<i>Why would I want a medal for outclassing vermin such as you?<br /></i><br />AHAHAHAHAH! You crack me the fuck up! Yeah, you are morally superior to all those losers who fail to be "extremely intolerant to the slightest form of half truth", because you are so totally one of the "smart ones [who] can afford to be honest".<br /><br />Get over yourself, rectitudinous offalscow. No one is impressed by your self-congratulatory wienerstroking blather.Comrade PhysioProfhttp://physioprof.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11195735652684408412009-12-02T16:03:50.844-06:002009-12-02T16:03:50.844-06:00@Comradephysioprof
Why would I want a medal for o...@Comradephysioprof<br /><br />Why would I want a medal for outclassing vermin such as you?HSPnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-78935123963490950522009-12-02T15:50:26.015-06:002009-12-02T15:50:26.015-06:00Thanks for the laugh! I needed it today. I would...Thanks for the laugh! I needed it today. I would add schools that have ADVANCE grant and bring in women faculty (not because they don't have them) but to showcase awesome women!<br /><br />PS I just list invited talks and conference (non-invited) talks.MEhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14859894739424620477noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7637064686115400342009-12-02T14:00:24.990-06:002009-12-02T14:00:24.990-06:00CV = everything or however much you want to show b...CV = everything or however much you want to show but most people (at least here in the US) would like the CV to be long and have every talk in there....<br /><br />Resume = short, one page long with "who am I and my recent things/the things I want to highlight", mostly for non-academic jobs<br /><br />Resume with publication list> something industry might want if you apply for something relating to research but you're still supposed to be able to shorten it to a page to tell them Who you are and your biggest achievemtns (mostly closest in time)<br /><br />FSP> I think that talk list was wonderful!challnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-35489924403467479912009-12-02T12:58:42.591-06:002009-12-02T12:58:42.591-06:00As for me, I like to bring in new stuff into my CV...<i>As for me, I like to bring in new stuff into my CV and throw old stuff out. All my life, I have chosen to be understated rather than overstated. My big fear is to be taken to be smarter than I am and as such, I am extremely intolerant to the slightest form of half truth. Job talks do not make the cut as "100% invited" talks. 99.9% isn't enough. The smart ones can afford to be honest.<br /></i><br />Big fucking deal. Waddya want? A fucking medal?Comrade Physioprofhttp://physioprof.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34175696297523364042009-12-02T11:52:51.435-06:002009-12-02T11:52:51.435-06:00First of all, FSP, love the post.
Second of all:
...First of all, FSP, love the post.<br /><br />Second of all:<br /><br /><i>I am the HSP who got blasted foully by CPP and called a retard by Candid Engineer yesterday for suggesting that job talks pad up the CV.</i><br /><br />I am the Candid Engineer who yesterday said that it is "retarded" to invite someone for an interview if you didn't expect to learn something from their job talk. There is a difference in calling an idea "retarded" and calling a person a "retard". <br /><br />And for more of my candid thoughts, let's focus on this gem:<br /><i>All my life, I have chosen to be understated rather than overstated. My big fear is to be taken to be smarter than I am and as such, I am extremely intolerant to the slightest form of half truth.</i><br /><br />I assume, HSP, that you are a professor of something. If so, then I'm glad you made the cut and have presumably been able to keep your job. But in the academic world of men, <i>my</i> biggest fear is to be taken to be <i>stupider</i> than I am, and as such, I am extremely careful to avoid the trap of women-who-like-to-downplay themselves.<br /><br />Smart people do a hell of a lot more than avoid padding their CVs- smart people learn how to play the game, and they play to win.Candid Engineerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01722793931639972423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34859183569872642962009-12-02T11:30:19.991-06:002009-12-02T11:30:19.991-06:00@Anonymous 8:05:
I am a new FSP, and I don't ...@Anonymous 8:05:<br /><br />I am a new FSP, and I don't mind doing the lunches with students--in fact I like hearing about their work--but it's nice to have something other than pizza. At my graduate school 8-10 students would take the speaker to the campus club, all billed to the department. They had vegetarian, vegan and healthful food options. We grads had a good life.<br /><br />The typical lunch of pizza and soda gives me a giant sugar rush, followed by crash and dehydration. I don't even drink the soda anymore, just water from the drinking fountain. And I have certainly had FSP's experience of hardly being able to eat anything for being so busy answering questions.Sallynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84077828561481979342009-12-02T10:58:14.079-06:002009-12-02T10:58:14.079-06:00Brava, FSP. I was one of the anti-job talk voices...Brava, FSP. I was one of the anti-job talk voices. But this is hilarious, and was a nice way to start my day.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-85616955557155669132009-12-02T10:20:10.289-06:002009-12-02T10:20:10.289-06:00As a FSP, I also have had many pizza lunches with ...As a FSP, I also have had many pizza lunches with female students. Interacting with students is generally the most enjoyable part of a seminar visit and I really appreciate it when departments allow a lot of student/postdoc interaction with a speaker. The science discussions, the career discussions, the life discussions - all are dynamic and great. However, the labels are problematic - when invited for a special 'women in science' lecture or asked to do a special mentoring lunch at a lecture I groan inwardly because it labels the speaker as 'other' and it labels the interactions at the mentoring events as 'other'. Although it may seem like a small thing, it is not - it means that faculty and students will not put the visit or the interactions on the same level as they do an unlabeled speaker. Once our department stopped the special labels for female speakers and made sure to include plenty of interaction opportunities for students and postdocs, then it really helped.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-64210485679980221482009-12-02T10:10:43.306-06:002009-12-02T10:10:43.306-06:00I don't mind interruptions during my talks.
I...I don't mind interruptions during my talks.<br /><br />I do give a lot of talks, although this fake list has 4-5 more talks on it than I gave in real life.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-6195413529121072712009-12-02T09:58:16.377-06:002009-12-02T09:58:16.377-06:00I don't mind the pizza lunches and in fact enj...I don't mind the pizza lunches and in fact enjoy them; they do give the impression that the main/only reason an FSP was invited was to talk to other women, but I don't really care about that. I take it as a challenge to give a research talk that will interest as many people as possible in the department. <br /><br />The main logistical challenge of some of the pizza lunches is that everyone else eats, I talk, and then it is assumed that I had lunch and I have to get through the rest of a busy afternoon + talk without having eaten much, if anything, since breakfast.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31552432311242484232009-12-02T09:41:20.001-06:002009-12-02T09:41:20.001-06:00HSP, you can do whatever you want with your CV. B...HSP, you can do whatever you want with your CV. But seriously. Have you ever given an uninvited job talk? Just show up and start talking? And did they offer you the job? Do you not know what CV stands for? <br /><br />Also, your fixation on the word "sanitize" is disturbing.<br /><br />FSP, I think you should have two categories for talks: Real Talks and Tacky Talks. Problem solved.<br /><br />This comment has been sanitized for your protection.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-90154406580987986662009-12-02T09:37:11.929-06:002009-12-02T09:37:11.929-06:00As HSP says, it is important to know what to keep ...As HSP says, it is important to know what to keep and what to remove from you CV as time goes by. But if you are going to list invited talks at all (as opposed to plenaries) there isn't really much difference between interview talks and others. In fact one could argue that given the paucity of jobs landing an interview talk is harder than landing an invited talk. <br /><br />At the same time, are invited talks that hard to come by in your field? active people in my department always have a bunch of standing invitations from half a dozen institutions. <br /><br />The only reason I list mine is because other people do, and if you don't some might assume that you have none.<br /><br /><i>Honestly, I pity those like CPP who have to wear their achievements of the last millenium [sic] on their sleeve. </i><br /><br />Chip meet shoulder, shoulder meet chip.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17285394987000840572009-12-02T09:29:42.533-06:002009-12-02T09:29:42.533-06:00Apologies FSP, I know this is off-point. I think y...Apologies FSP, I know this is off-point. I think you might find this interesting, you may have seen it already. <br /><br />http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/07/12/AR2006071201883_pf.html <br /><br />It's a piece from the Washington post about a biologist who underwent a sexchange operation and so has had career experience, first as a woman and then a man. It's quite interesting.Tarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09426303279753164739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-65002271438444410952009-12-02T08:55:01.725-06:002009-12-02T08:55:01.725-06:00Continuing the thread from yesterday.... It's ...Continuing the thread from yesterday.... It's worth thinking about why people who look at CVs want to see listed talks in the first place. I'm thinking about promotion, for example. Talks are at least a crude measure of how much impact you are having beyond your home institution (obviously the combination of publications and citations are another huge component). In this case, all talks are relevant. Do the people who think including explicit job talks is unethical or misleading only include <i>completely unsolicited</i> talks? For example, suppose I work to put together a nomination for an invited symposium at a national meeting, and I suggest my student or my postdoc as a speaker. Should the student or postdoc not list the talk on their CV, because they had some contact with the organizer?Douglas Natelsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13340091255404229559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43208032046357745752009-12-02T08:50:02.395-06:002009-12-02T08:50:02.395-06:00Love it
Mark P
PS Humor and a deep breath are t...Love it<br /><br />Mark P<br /><br />PS Humor and a deep breath are the right approach to this--different folks can manage their CVs differentlyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-33201618388722703702009-12-02T08:24:46.870-06:002009-12-02T08:24:46.870-06:00Anonymous @5:08- a CV is a complete listing of you...Anonymous @5:08- a CV is a complete listing of your professional life. A resume is a summary, usually only 2-3 pages long. In a resume, you highlight the aspects of your experience most relevant to the job for which you are applying.<br /><br />In my experience, industry positions expect resumes (although with a complete listing of publications) and academic positions expect CVs.Cloudhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09317847285050447789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38240491608972843722009-12-02T08:24:46.871-06:002009-12-02T08:24:46.871-06:00Love. this. post.Love. this. post.Average Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879007878874956437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39657783884794172232009-12-02T08:20:54.275-06:002009-12-02T08:20:54.275-06:00HSP,
Isn't this the difference between a resu...HSP,<br /><br />Isn't this the difference between a resume and a CV? A resume is a document you write that describes you and how you fit into a particular job. That sort of document should be short and tailored to those things that define you, or are relevant for the position. A CV is, literally, a description of your "course of life." I learned that it should contain, essentially, everything you did in your professional life. If I were to read a sanitized CV for a job applicant they would probably end up in the "no" pile without an interview (unless their research was known to me and definitely awesome). I wouldn't do this on purpose, I would just assume that the person hadn't done very much. And how would I know the difference when I have a few hundred applications to look through?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43693206086498295812009-12-02T08:20:54.277-06:002009-12-02T08:20:54.277-06:00@anon 5:08
I was under the impression that a CV wa...@anon 5:08<br />I was under the impression that a CV was supposed to be more comprehensive than a resume. CV = everything you consider a career accomplishment. Resume = your biggest and most recent career accomplishments only.<br /><br />@HSP<br />It's perfectly fine if you want to set ridiculous standards for your CV that no one else in your field follows. What is not fine is to be intolerant of others who write their CV like every other rational person.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com