tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post8095430227432510977..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Mrs DegreeFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger57125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34268656849887496882012-01-02T12:05:36.152-06:002012-01-02T12:05:36.152-06:00I agree that such questions are insulting. Howeve...I agree that such questions are insulting. However, I'd suggest that students who have to field these questions probably have a problem presenting themselves as a serious student. A highly motivated, smart and serious student, male or female, will not have to answer this question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56545525722510241782011-10-08T18:03:48.982-05:002011-10-08T18:03:48.982-05:00This leaves me speechless. I studied because I was...This leaves me speechless. I studied because I was interested in my field and I also wanted to get a nice job. I've got a Master's degree and my spouse has a lower degree and he is totally fine with it. Just today he said that I am really intelligent. <br /><br />None of my professors asked whether or not I was going to marry or have a family. Working and being a woman is normal in Finland. In fact, if you are a woman and stay home, people start to ask you what's wrong with you.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-54836305785118414902011-09-07T11:24:28.620-05:002011-09-07T11:24:28.620-05:00I didn't go to grad school for an MRS, but in ...I didn't go to grad school for an MRS, but in retrospect, that probably would have been the best time for me to meet intelligent single men. It's all been downhill from there.<br /><br />Also, it's been my experience that having a PhD works against me in the dating field if anything.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-42003978553455781072011-09-05T04:13:56.518-05:002011-09-05T04:13:56.518-05:00I kept my maiden name, therefore professionally I&...I kept my maiden name, therefore professionally I've always been Dr. [my maiden name] ever since the start of my career. Most of my colleagues don't know what my married name is because I never use it and thus have no occasion to mention it. Or maybe they just assume that my name is my married name, except that my husband and I are of different races and ethnicities and my maiden name is very obviously associated with my race/ethnicity (well, duh) so I think this would rule out such an assumption. Yet I still get mail sent to my workplace, addressed to: Mrs. [my maiden name]. when this happens I have a vague feeling of being offended yet I can't clearly explain why. Maybe it's because on top of the fact that being a "Dr" has been replaced by being a "Mrs", do they automatically assume that I must be married and therefore my husband must be of the same race/ethnicity as me to explain the name I have? is this both sexism AND racism rolled into one?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47869348963251211872011-09-04T08:42:52.030-05:002011-09-04T08:42:52.030-05:00Oh my how many stories I have about the Mrs. degre...Oh my how many stories I have about the Mrs. degree and variations on that insult!<br /><br />Just a few months ago I was listed on the conference website for the major conference in my field as "Mrs. XXXX" even though it's been Dr. XXXX for some time. I used all of the restraint I could muster and wrote the organizers and explained that my marital status was really quite irrelevant to the conference and while generally I wouldn't mind being listed just as FirstName Lastname, listing me as Mrs. XXXX instead of Dr. XXXX when other people (men) with my rank and title were listed as Dr. XXXX was really rather offensive in my culture and if they would please fix it I would try not to be too insulted.<br /><br />Another time one of my friends was talking to a prof about a post doc job and another prof came up and interrupted and said, oh, you don't want to hire her - she's just going to get married and leave the field anyways! My friend stared blankly, so eventually he said, "See? She's not replying. I must be right!" My friend just said, "No, I was just wondering if you would ever say that to a male graduate student."<br /><br />There is no formulaic good way to respond to these things. If you're still fairly junior, it might be better not to reply, no matter how inappropriate it is, to avoid retribution or more nasty talk about how you are "difficult to work with." I have been called "culturally insensitive" for complaining about insults like this - see, because there's cultural differences in how much sexism is accepted and it's my job as a woman to adapt to how much BS people are giving me, not other people's job to adapt to actually show respect to young women. I am apparently incredibly "difficult to work with." Really how to respond depends a lot on the situation and whether the person generally means well but just stuck his/her foot in his/her mouth or whether he is a committed sexist unlikely to be redeemed. It also depends on whether or not this person can hurt you. Your goal is to minimize the damage done to you and perhaps to try to teach the community how to behave appropriately - not to be a career martyr. It makes no sense to waste time & energy on an irredeemable sexist pig - however, if you're in front of a lot of people, maybe you can try to make it clear that this is not acceptable behavior so other people learn how to behave. If you can make a joke, great - it's harder to color you as an ugly, bitter woman if you make a joke. But we can't all always think on our feet like that. And if someone just inadvertently stuck his foot in his mouth, embarrasing him may not be the best way to encourage good behavior. A simple, true comment that makes everyone uncomfortable can do the trick - "Wow. That was really insulting and inappropriate." And then stare at him mutely until someone speaks up. If you're junior, that may trigger a more senior bystander to speak up without really risking anything yourself. Of course if this person is in a place of power, there may be official channels to complain through - but in my experience, most official channels fail to do anything effective about sexism. Still, leaving a written record of bad behavior probably won't help you but if this person is a serial bad actor it will help someone do something eventually and make it harder for him to run from his record.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-19550244507468185852011-09-04T07:35:58.556-05:002011-09-04T07:35:58.556-05:00What's with the plethora of comments along the...What's with the plethora of comments along the lines of, "Well, I knew a woman once who openly said she was looking for a husband..."<br /><br />So what?<br /><br />1. One nutty young woman does not speak for the gender.<br /><br />2. Maybe that was just her shtick. I remember when intelligent, ambitious young women were still new to campuses: if they were unapologetic about their intellect, they faced open hostility from students and faculty, even violence. Putting on a "I'm-just-here-for-the-boys" routine might have been a survival tactic. <br /><br />But to answer your question: I respond to weird, rude questions depending on the scenario. I think you can always tell when someone is having a go at you/bullying you, as opposed to "just" being a clueless boob. <br /><br />If someone's trying to bully me with rude questions, I always stop talking and give the questioner a long, blank stare, finally saying, "Sorry, what?" I've *never* had that fail. Either the questioner just falls silent too and looks flustered, or he scrambles to fill the silence with back-pedaling.<br /><br />If someone is "just" not thinking, I'll just laugh and say something like, "You do realize you said that out loud?" or "How about we both pretend you didn't say that?"laurennoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-67878321654225206672011-09-03T01:09:57.255-05:002011-09-03T01:09:57.255-05:00Anecdatally, I did know a man who once said he'...Anecdatally, I did know a man who once said he'd considered grad school because he figured that once he graduated college he would stop crossing paths with women.<br /><br />Then again, I don't trust him at all, so that anecdatum may well be false.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41567775069761407552011-09-02T16:19:03.048-05:002011-09-02T16:19:03.048-05:00@anon11.50, yes, and no doubt these are the same p...@anon11.50, yes, and no doubt these are the same people that block progress for the childless women on the grounds that 'there is something wrong with them' (translation: 'if they really want to work full-time, they may actually - shock-horror - demonstrate the capabilities of a man!').Keahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652514294703722285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-50728309196505120232011-09-02T15:57:09.037-05:002011-09-02T15:57:09.037-05:00I'm a little concerned by the people who think...I'm a little concerned by the people who think that such a question from a prof might be semi-valid because they've been "burned" in the past by women leaving the lab for a spouse.<br /><br />Nope. Still wildly inappropriate. You don't get to assess individuals' fitness for the lab based on actual or desired marital status.<br /><br />"The implications of some of these comments is that any questions about whether students plan to get married and whether they intend to have kids are taboo."<br /><br />Yes, well, IMO, they SHOULD be taboo.CSgradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11282574814436164592011-09-01T23:50:10.754-05:002011-09-01T23:50:10.754-05:00Isn't it funny that the same people who make t...Isn't it funny that the same people who make the M.R.S. Degree joke are the same ones who snicker when a highly-educated woman takes off any amount of time from work/research for family-related reasons? <br /><br />I can't tell you how many times I've heard someone say that an education is "wasted" on a woman who takes off months or years to raise a family.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-66115696020695179872011-09-01T16:29:20.282-05:002011-09-01T16:29:20.282-05:00anon@2:46
Yes, the smelly-bearded joke and its il...anon@2:46<br /><br />Yes, the smelly-bearded joke and its ilk are self-conscious, but fall into the same category of "it's just a joke to make a point, and I'm not a cretin for saying it", which I reject.<br /><br />Trading an insult for an insult is a poor way to move forward. Many of the other posts are equally effective ways to move toward the right path without re-animating stigmatizing caricatures.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17549775299825202372011-09-01T16:23:24.825-05:002011-09-01T16:23:24.825-05:00Just stare at him and answer slowly and watch his ...Just stare at him and answer slowly and watch his expression: "What do you think?" Then give him that seductive look to make it memorable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-73008907417017525812011-09-01T15:35:02.187-05:002011-09-01T15:35:02.187-05:00I like "nope, marriage is a tool of the patri...I like "nope, marriage is a tool of the patriarchy"<br />or <br />"in a hetronormative society, marriage is an implicit endorsement of discrimination until my LGBT friends can also marry"Beccahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15356974556397009124noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-70455176958449320572011-09-01T10:53:41.132-05:002011-09-01T10:53:41.132-05:00How much do you know about the developing world? M...<i>How much do you know about the developing world? Most middle-class women in almost all developing countries are housewives and mothers.</i><br /><br />How much do <i>you</i> know about it? I am from the developing world. It's impossible to live on one salary in my home country. Everybody works works (or wants to work) -- -- men and women. If your wife doesn't work, everyone feels sorry for you, because they think she either can't get a job or she's lazy, both of which deserve pity.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7177056579774191462011-09-01T08:52:52.510-05:002011-09-01T08:52:52.510-05:00It's quite a middle-class, 1st world privilege...<i>It's quite a middle-class, 1st world privilege to count on not having to work and just being a mother. Nowhere in the developing world is this nonsense even possible.</i><br /><br />How much do you know about the developing world? Most middle-class women in almost all developing countries are housewives and mothers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7567072640862019772011-09-01T08:48:42.864-05:002011-09-01T08:48:42.864-05:00To John Vidale at 2:46...
I think people are taki...To John Vidale at 2:46...<br /><br />I think people are taking the tack of Anonymous 8:47, purposely answering offensive jokes that criticize an entire population with offensive jokes that criticize an entire population in the "other direction." If you read the post about "beardy men who barely wash," Anonymous said:<br /><br /><i>Note that sexism goes both ways for this kind of remarks, and I think the best answer is to answer a cliche by another cliche, only worse.</i><br /><br />It's not that she doesn't realize she's criticizing an entire population. In fact, that's the whole point! It's an attempt to point out how the original questioner made her feel by returning the favor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-88062610983519023452011-09-01T05:07:28.750-05:002011-09-01T05:07:28.750-05:00Along similar lines (inappropriate comments), I (a...Along similar lines (inappropriate comments), I (a younger female grad student) was once helpfully advised by an older male grad student, when I asked how his child was doing, that I should have children soon before I got too old. Do people need to have it explained to them that this is a less-than-tactful thing to say?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25254571884932235832011-09-01T03:21:22.867-05:002011-09-01T03:21:22.867-05:00"1. "Why did you choose to do a PhD in C..."1. "Why did you choose to do a PhD in Computer Science anyway? Did you come looking for a boyfriend?""<br /><br />Here's an answer: I came here to do a PhD in Computer Science so my husband/boyfriend doesn't have to worry about me eyeing good looking guys.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-19466086201318470652011-08-31T19:37:45.200-05:002011-08-31T19:37:45.200-05:00My usual reaction is to play dumb, because I'm...My usual reaction is to play dumb, because I'm wondering if he is trying to upset me or is just socially inept. So I'm sure my immediate answer would be:<br /><br />"Oh, I'd never date anybody in my own field. The last thing I want is to run into my ex at conferences for the rest of my life."<br /><br />If he kept pressing the point, I'd rely on trusty old condescension. <br /><br />"Wow, I haven't heard the term MRS Degree since my mom told me it was common back in the 60s when she was in college. Do you realize that most younger students probably don't even know what it means?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31940274690190552142011-08-31T19:13:22.920-05:002011-08-31T19:13:22.920-05:00LOL, as Masters degree in engineering graduate in ...LOL, as Masters degree in engineering graduate in a latin country I heard that question once, long time ago; he looked at me and asked that so I just smiled and looked back and said with an innocent look, "well I tougth that, at the engineering school will be a better chance to find an intelligent one, but soon I realized that was a lost battle so decided to enjoy the school and, in the mean while, the students fixed my car, made the calculus homework, so I had time to look at the bussines school, at least they smell good and are well dressed there", another little smile and did "the walk" never looking back.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84423044487036333922011-08-31T18:29:25.175-05:002011-08-31T18:29:25.175-05:00For all sexist, inappropriate, or overly personal ...For all sexist, inappropriate, or overly personal questions I have developed the following response:<br /><br />Why do you ask?<br /><br />This often is enough to point out the fact that the question is inappropriate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11870589245435636112011-08-31T18:09:03.897-05:002011-08-31T18:09:03.897-05:00As for how to handle it: just say that you’re ther...<i>As for how to handle it: just say that you’re there for the science, you love learning, and research is fun.</i><br /><br />Nah, bad idea. You won't be assisted up the ladder if they don't think you have proper family values. They need to know there will be a Man keeping you in line. This might be an exaggeration in fields where women have reached the critical mass, but in fields where there are essentially no women this is the culture at present. I have seen it again and again. Being 'unwomanly' counts against you.Keahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652514294703722285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-69942858876729348352011-08-31T17:41:46.860-05:002011-08-31T17:41:46.860-05:00No, we have the internet now.No, we have the internet now.PQAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09167430646572503621noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-21625084216408149102011-08-31T17:17:46.506-05:002011-08-31T17:17:46.506-05:00If it's a *rich* spouse you're looking for...If it's a *rich* spouse you're looking for, why on earth would you go to grad school? Low job prospects and often lots of debt. <br /><br />It also may not necessarily be the best place if you're looking for someone smart....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-6606057378205076772011-08-31T15:26:37.733-05:002011-08-31T15:26:37.733-05:00I know we are supposed to be supportive of everyon...I know we are supposed to be supportive of everyone's life choices, second wave feminism and all that, but for every woman who says she's just biding time till she gets married -- apparently everyone remembers those women, as this thread shows -- 10 serious female researchers will a priori be dismissed as not serious because they are women. <br /><br />If one only wants to bide time waiting to meet a dude who will ultimately propose and impregnate you, I would think there are easier things to do in the meantime than go to grad school -- say, work with a BS degree. Or if you hate it, work as as a waitress or become a hairstylist or something. You could actually contribute towards retirement and make more money than a grad student. <br /><br />I am sorry, but having as the personal ultimate goal to create new people, through whose achievements I suppose you get to live vicariously, is not something I have ever able to understand. It's quite a middle-class, 1st world privilege to count on not having to work and just being a mother. Nowhere in the developing world is this nonsense even possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com