tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post8539575319667228138..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: It's All My FaultFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-42725214159374230802006-12-10T21:10:00.000-06:002006-12-10T21:10:00.000-06:00"If the advisor is all business, does that mean th..."If the advisor is all business, does that mean that they are not a 'mentor'?"<br /><br />Absolutely not! I spend a substantial amount of time every day interacting with my trainees, teaching them how to reason like scientists, how to plan a research program on short and long time scales, how to read and write science, how to plan a career, how to obtain funding, how to give talks, etc. This is mentoring.<br /><br />Do I socialize with my trainees? No. We have a small number of planned lab social events every year, such as an annual holiday luncheon, but I do not socialize informally with them.<br /><br />In my opinion, it is not realistic, except in very special circumstances, to expect to be able to be both a good friend and a good mentor to a trainee. Since I consider it my responsibility as a PI to mentor my trainees, I do not attempt to befriend them.<br /><br />Of course, we engage in random snippets of small talk and other social interactions, but I do not go out with them for beers, meals, hiking trips, etc.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-59376800509694739762006-12-08T09:57:00.000-06:002006-12-08T09:57:00.000-06:00I'm the last anonymous. I'm perfectly fine with n...I'm the last anonymous. I'm perfectly fine with not having a 'mentor', whatever that means. If the advisor is all business, does that mean that they are not a 'mentor'? It helps to know where you stand and what you're supposed to do each step of the way during your degree getting process, but that information can be garnered from peers or from a well designed departmental website. Also, I think that this formality is the way things are done normally back in the old country.<br /><br />Besides, if I turn out like Alcibiades, I can always blame my mentor for poor mentorship and the university can hemlock him.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14645230552430109692006-12-07T18:33:00.000-06:002006-12-07T18:33:00.000-06:00I agree with liberal chemist; it is possible this ...I agree with liberal chemist; it is possible this was a rapport issue. It sounds like this student had great rapport previously and probably thought he'd find that again in his PhD advisor. From personal experience, it can be very disappointing when that rapport fails to develop. It keeps an advisor from being a mentor. I did not have a very social advisor. I tried early and often to get to know her socially by asking questions. She preferred to keep private & was all business. I was very jealous of fellow students who actually had mentors in their advisors. I eventually found a mentor to compensate but would have preferred my advisor to be that for me. It doesn't always work out.Field Noteshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18372584643389870376noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-73492677302987141682006-12-07T18:11:00.000-06:002006-12-07T18:11:00.000-06:00Interesting. Besides all the discussion about your...Interesting. Besides all the discussion about your ex-student’s audacity, gs' statement made me contemplate graduate studies in general. Honestly, I never thought about it the way that the supervisor is going to fund my work. I always thought the university does ... and "they" are the "bad-ones" anyway, aren't they? <br /><br /><i>Regards from a humble undergrad, hoping to start a PhD soon.</i>Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08158481724068252137noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-52711103084590340762006-12-07T09:21:00.000-06:002006-12-07T09:21:00.000-06:00My advisor is so against doing anything mildly soc...My advisor is so against doing anything mildly social at all with his grad students. So much so, that we talk in English to each other when we're alone (only sometimes talking in our native language during conferences or a rare department party to which he will come). Which actually strangely makes it more social since English doesn't have polite pronouns and I can call him 'you' instead of 'thou'.<br /><br />I think it's easier to focus on research and have success this way... Unless your research doesn't work out of course.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4829625696206420882006-12-06T18:31:00.000-06:002006-12-06T18:31:00.000-06:00It is suprising how often this can occur. We had ...It is suprising how often this can occur. We had a male student in our lab who was constantly making inappropriate remarks about woman, even though our PI is a woman. He eventually left and our lab dynamic improved immediately. I guess looking back I should of said something to my PI, as he obviously did not voice this opinion in front of her, but I was a lowly undergrad, afraid of rocking the boat.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-2470919590373699532006-12-06T16:09:00.000-06:002006-12-06T16:09:00.000-06:00Maybe, but I don't think so. I get along well both...Maybe, but I don't think so. I get along well both professionally and socially with most of my students -- male or female -- even though most of them are very unlike me in personality. A couple of my current students are the main leaders of grad beer nights, and we get along great (though I do not attend grad beer night and would be surprised if they wanted me to). I think that in the case I described, the student was feeling miserable, looking for someone to blame, and it was easy for him to pick on my lack of social availability, as if my being a mom made me less of an advisor to him because I had other priorities outside of work.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-89728002672901297032006-12-06T15:57:00.000-06:002006-12-06T15:57:00.000-06:00Not that I would question your analysis of the spe...Not that I would question your analysis of the specific situation but is it possible that the social dynamic was less of a gender issue and more of a familiarity issue? I have had graduate students that were like myself and tended to be bookish and reserved. I have had rather more difficult relationships with my graduate students that were more "social". This might have more to say about how some people (gender neutral) develop student - mentor relationships.<br /><br />Yes, I am a male faculty member but what smoked me out of lurking was a male graduate student of mine (that had to "settle" for a Masters degree) said exactly the same thing to me about the social dynamic that he needed for learning. It's a thought.Liberal Arts Chemisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15596792160119000781noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31001895616011053322006-12-06T13:34:00.000-06:002006-12-06T13:34:00.000-06:00I commented yesterday about my thesis advisor's me...I commented yesterday about my thesis advisor's mediocre letters.<br /><br />What I didn't add yesterday was that he is very much the go-out-for-beers type. I honestly think he did show preference towards male students who went out for beers on Fridays with him, his buddies. I'm just not a beer or a bar kind of person (and I'm a woman). <br /><br />So yes, James, the situation of female grad students is less than motivating - from both points of view. I think he was less motivated towards me, and I wasn't all that motivated to please him by drinking beer.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38129429407754443252006-12-06T13:28:00.000-06:002006-12-06T13:28:00.000-06:00I am male assitant prof, I had a female advisor, I...I am male assitant prof, I had a female advisor, I was working in cafes with her, and went hiking with her and her kids (which I liked a lot). An advisor is a bit like an "academic parent", and I am glad of my "academic mother": I am not sure if an "academic father" would have been different, but it could not have been much better :)dothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14825435867493579983noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-54991889314260658532006-12-06T12:53:00.000-06:002006-12-06T12:53:00.000-06:00Errr. Alarming, yet not surprising; condescensing...Errr. Alarming, yet not surprising; condescensing sexism ('You couldn't possibly know more than me') is definitely still alive and kicking. <br /><br />Do you have any thoughts on when it is legitimate to lay blame on one's advisor in part for research not progressing? In addition to blaming one's self for listening to said advisor, of course.Jenny F. Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07072624674603337551noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-16248512219846458372006-12-06T11:55:00.000-06:002006-12-06T11:55:00.000-06:00I guess he didn't realize how humiliating it would...<i>I guess he didn't realize how humiliating it would be to have a knowledgeable female advisor.</i><br /><br />I would guess that this is almost certainly the case, and that maybe that he didn't even realize that it was due to your gender. It's hard to express how humbling it is for a competent, competitive guy to be mentored by a woman who knows more than him, particularly in a technical field.<br /><br />Speaking from my experience, the first time I had a female colleague who was just obviously better at our job than I was (computer programming), it was a tough pill to swallow, and it took some time before I realized that my, for lack of a better word, irritation, with her was basically due to my own sexism.<br /><br />Once that connection was made, I was able to simply accept her as a really competent colleague, but it took a not insignificant amount of introspection and humility to even realize, "crap, I'm being a sexist ass!" And abstractly, I'm not someone who people would peg as likely to be sexist.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-83469451120251821252006-12-06T11:44:00.000-06:002006-12-06T11:44:00.000-06:00Another lesson you didn't mention (though Anonymou...Another lesson you didn't mention (though Anonymous just touched on it): I can believe that for some kinds of students, hanging out and shooting the breeze having a few beers really does make a difference. So what does that tell us about the situation of female graduate students?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29366321145142252092006-12-06T05:27:00.000-06:002006-12-06T05:27:00.000-06:00Wow. It never ends, does it??<i>Wow.</i> It never ends, does it??Dr. Brazen Hussyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14028147348339764737noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-966602285206558812006-12-06T04:58:00.000-06:002006-12-06T04:58:00.000-06:00One tidbit in here is that personal rapport is imp...One tidbit in here is that personal rapport is important but difficult to establish, especially when roles are not well defined because they are rare. This is all the more reason that a diverse faculty is important.<br /><br />Having said that, the tendency to blame ones own failings on others has been known to enhance the ability of coping with failure. I would hope that, after a while, people wake up to the reality even if they initially can't face it but maybe thats just me being optimistic...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18366712129060201712noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-24050072169301336212006-12-06T02:32:00.000-06:002006-12-06T02:32:00.000-06:00Thanks for the post (once again), a bit scary thou...Thanks for the post (once again), a bit scary though.... (These are students! Young people, not dinosaurs!)<br /><br />If a student thinks that an advisor's capacity for beer is more important than his/her research, he's not going to succeed anyway. <br /><br />"Maybe it was because he was a first year M.S. student and I completed grad school, ... and was a professor at a research university?" No, can't be: You just got the degree and the jobs because you're a woman. Women always have it easier nowadays, didn't you know?<br /><br />The advisor "more similar" to him is a good one as well, because we usually get told that having no women faculty (at all!) isn't (or shouldn't be) a problem for female students.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com