tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post873986630947154838..comments2024-03-14T04:53:49.513-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: In Praise of B StudentsFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger43125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-55134306684553746822013-12-27T21:43:28.319-06:002013-12-27T21:43:28.319-06:00Dear Anon Xmas poster,
I am not the author of thi...Dear Anon Xmas poster,<br /><br />I am not the author of this blog, only someone who commented a while back and subscribed to the post. Your post came up and it has me worried. After thinking about it for a few days, I only have the following advice to offer. <br /><br />First and most important, please talk to someone about how you are feeling. You have to take care of your self because without doing that the rest of your future is hard to figure out. You can reach the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255. Please take the time to talk to someone. <br /><br />Secondly, your future is not ruined. While I agree that your GPA is lower than you would like, many potential programs/employers focus on the work you did in your major. Typically, on resumes, I listed my major GPA separate from my overall GPA. Additionally, GPA is not all the helps an applicant stand out. Unique project work, internships or research experiences can help as well. And if you don't have those, start looking at getting them now. Academic work doesn't typically start right after graduation, so keep looking around and applying for positions. This might require moving, but if the work is there and it is work you are passionate about, you will need to consider it as a possibility. I hope you keep trying though and I wish you the best of luck in the coming new year. <br /><br />Don't give up! Brian Carpenterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07005159787332407378noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-67787816656592139922013-12-25T21:10:59.522-06:002013-12-25T21:10:59.522-06:00I don't know what to do with myself. I am grad...I don't know what to do with myself. I am graduating from college next semester and my cumulative GPA is only 2.5. My GPA was below a 2.0 during my freshman and sophomore years. However, I had a 3.8 during my senior year. Unfortunately, there is nothing I can do now to change the past. I wish that I could go back in time and study harder my first two years of college. I have a strong interest in human and primate evolution, population genetics, osteology, forensic anthropology, Viking archaeology, and Mesoamerican archaeology. I live in New York City. I would like to work for a museum, an archaeological research center, a historical society, a national park, or a primate conservation center. I think that I ruined my future and I will never be able to get an entry-level position or get into a Masters program. Most employers ask for transcripts and no one will hire someone who graduated with a 2.5. Do you think that my life is over because of bad grades in the past? I am suicidally depressed and I feel like jumping off a bridge. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-2367472654221088932012-05-29T09:28:06.071-05:002012-05-29T09:28:06.071-05:00i think the variance matters! i would rather have ...i think the variance matters! i would rather have someone getting straight A's than someone getting straight B's, since they're probably both working to maximize their grades. The student with a few A's and a few C's, however, probably doesn't care about their GPA, and got those A's due to a true interest in and deep learning of the subject. This suggests they are much more capable than their GPA suggests.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-88087616724534044562012-01-19T09:43:56.538-06:002012-01-19T09:43:56.538-06:00I don't know if we can yet predict how well-su...I don't know if we can yet predict how well-suited a student will be for a research position, but I think it would be interesting to study success stories. I think one way to do this may be to take a look at a student's grades before and after a research experience. My guess is that our favorite (mine, too) 'B' students' grades will improve slightly, but significantly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-49409556756055038322009-12-19T19:01:35.372-06:002009-12-19T19:01:35.372-06:00Hi,
I am an undergraduate student currently. Ordi...Hi,<br /><br />I am an undergraduate student currently. Ordinarily I have A's throughout every semester, yet recently have had some difficulty in seeing eye to eye with, to use the terminology from your essay, "Teacher X" (love that by the way). I worked remarkably hard throughout the course, did all of the necessary work and more, yet my final grade was dependent essentially upon this particular professors point of view on a piece of work I did. After it being graded I was subsequently given a B for the course. <br /><br />The point of this comment is not to rant about this professor yet to thank you for the humility and encouragement you bring to an exceedingly "A" based academic world in which anything lower does not categorize you amongst the "Top Students" of your school. This label I always found to be aggravating in itself, seeing that I have found a number of students to do half the necessary work, with very little care yet still pass with an A, making them a "higher" student than the B students who learn a little differently. I also enjoyed the the cartoon about working with "bright" and "humble" B+ students!<br /><br />Your article was articulate, humanizing, inspiring and incredibly smart. You have my utmost gratitude for writing it and I am pleased to have read it!<br /><br />CCatherine Crookhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12078369401741701713noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58013016857306021582009-08-09T16:23:02.152-05:002009-08-09T16:23:02.152-05:00I am a B student. Thank you for your encouragement...I am a B student. Thank you for your encouragement.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-46497853238315371122009-01-24T14:24:00.000-06:002009-01-24T14:24:00.000-06:00phagenista: That sort of thing frustrates me to de...phagenista: That sort of thing frustrates me to death. It's even worse than those who think that people who worked their way up from a C to an A must be better than someone who got As all along because the C-to-A person showed improvement. It's not a bad thing to have done well all along. Some people just happen to be very good at academics; they shouldn't be penalized for that.<BR/><BR/>Some A-students *do* have the work ethic and critical thinking skills to do well in research. In my experience, *many* A-students have that combination. (I may be biased by the fact that I teach a course that requires and tests for thinking and analysis rather than rote memorization.)<BR/><BR/>That said, I agree that many B-students are just as capable of good research as the A-students. Frankly, some C+ students do great research too. I just don't agree that a B-student will automatically be better than an A-student.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29240374012850989272009-01-18T23:59:00.000-06:002009-01-18T23:59:00.000-06:00This is such an interesting post. As a "straight ...This is such an interesting post. As a "straight A" student myself, I struggled with several issues when it came to my Ph.D. research. One issue was that getting an "A" in a class generally involved doing exactly what the professor wanted. When I started grad school, I thought that was how my advisor wanted me to behave in my research as well. He was a big micromanager, so I continued thinking that way for awhile and getting nowhere in my research.<BR/>A second issue I had was with both failure of experiments and lack of positive feedback from my advisor. As an "A" student, I had only experienced positive results and positive feedback from professors. I felt like such a failure that I came very close to quitting altogether.<BR/>A final issue (related to the first issue) had to do with getting excited about topics enough to pursue them independently. Again, to earn those A's in classes, I always had to quell my excitement about specific topics so that I had time to complete my assignments and study material that would be on the exam.<BR/>I'm excited to say once I moved past those issues, I found so much more joy in research than I did in my classes. I can't imagine giving up the freedom I now have to pursue topics that excite me. And once I discovered that my research progressed much better when I made decisions independently of my advisor, I also discovered that made my advisor a lot happier, as well.<BR/>Maybe there is hope for "A" students, afterall. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28072457436698026912009-01-16T14:52:00.000-06:002009-01-16T14:52:00.000-06:00I think another issue is that there are a lot of B...I think another issue is that there are a lot of B students who are A students when they are interested in the material. A lot of them benefit more from the hands-on experience and then perform better in class because they understand its importance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-35016098187763531462009-01-15T23:40:00.000-06:002009-01-15T23:40:00.000-06:00FSP, thank you and all the other professors like y...FSP, thank you and all the other professors like you for believing in B students! I've always been happy with my grades even though they weren't at the top, because I knew that if I wanted to get straight A's I'd have to cut everything else out of my life, like my beloved extracurriculars and interesting part-time job. Several of my professors chided me for not getting the best grades in my department, because they knew I was interested and could have done the work, but they also believed in me enough to encourage me to take on research projects and high-level courses I wouldn't have appeared to qualify for based on my grades. The more work I do at these higher levels the better my grades and other measurements of accomplishment get, because I'm more interested in the subject of my work. <BR/><BR/>Many B students aren't able to memorize enough facts to reach an A level in lecture/test based courses, but are energized by tasks that require thought, discussion, and consideration of larger themes. And not doing perfectly in a few courses over the course of 4 or more years should never be the end of the world, although unfortunately it often makes the difference between who receives scholarships and awards and who doesn't.Quill2006https://www.blogger.com/profile/10097526801571036393noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-85844475778958231222009-01-15T06:51:00.000-06:002009-01-15T06:51:00.000-06:00FPS said "Of course we don't expect that students,...FPS said "Of course we don't expect that students, however stratospheric their GPA, will automatically know how to do research -- as advisors we try to teach this"<BR/><BR/>I'd really question you on this. In my experience as graduate and undergraduate student, I found that most (though not all) of my research advisors expected you to either: a) already know how to do something or b) figure it out on your own. I fully support the idea of independent learning, especially if you are doing research, but I don't think either a or b could count as teaching.<BR/><BR/>If you don't mind answering the question, I'm interested in finding out what methods you use to teach research to those new to the experience.Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13622107839376919585noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-42191164333646249602009-01-15T00:59:00.000-06:002009-01-15T00:59:00.000-06:00I think it's also important to remember that some ...I think it's also important to remember that some people choose to be B+ students. I know that I am fully capable of achieving an A average, but I don't think it's worth the extra stress. I work to understand the concepts so I can apply them, but I rarely spend the extra time to memorize everything, just in case it might come up on an exam. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. Part of growing up and being an adult and living on your own is learning what you're capable of and what you think is reasonable to expect of yourself. That requires being intelligent about life, something I think contributes to research ability a lot more than being smart in school. <BR/><BR/>I am much happier as a B+ student, because I have more time for a balanced lifestyle, and for my undergrad research. I am positive that the work I'm doing outside of classes will make up for that small disparity in grades if I choose to continue in grad school.frigidtoasterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06835532971270322757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-78321159385724531582009-01-14T16:53:00.000-06:002009-01-14T16:53:00.000-06:00My undergrad research advisor almost withdrew his ...My undergrad research advisor almost withdrew his offer of a job when he found out I was a straight A student. He was a C student, and much preferred students who were smart and creative... sometimes too creative to survive/excel in the regimented school environment.Phagenistahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08322284553341700054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14082835243475072252009-01-14T16:51:00.000-06:002009-01-14T16:51:00.000-06:00What is interesting among undergrads at SnobU in u...What is interesting among undergrads at SnobU in upper division courses that I taught in, we got a bimodal distribution. A group got As while the other group got Cs. Grad students in the course got As and Bs. Breaking it down by questions asked, undergraduates from both grade groups tended to do well on the do you know X type questions. Grad students on the other hand tended to do better on thinking/synthesizing type questions. A students did both well regardless of group. The A undergraduates were the one's who did research. Talking with them I found that they in previous classes were a mix of A & B students. The C group were a mix of B & C students.PonderingFoolhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10767758746935185528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-89248675939714383062009-01-14T14:48:00.000-06:002009-01-14T14:48:00.000-06:00Wow, my grammar was terrible in my previous commen...Wow, my grammar was terrible in my previous comment. (How embarrassing...oops)<BR/><BR/>Reading the comments with addition to FSP's post makes me feel a little better to know I'm not completely alone in this academic boat. <BR/><BR/>When I started research my advisor never asked me what my grades/gpa were. He just wanted to know what classes I'd taken and what project I wanted to work on. I realize now that I was lucky to snag a spot in a lab with a great advisor (and great funding). I hope having such a positive experience doesn't totally bite me in the butt when (if) I'm in grad school....<BR/><BR/><BR/>@Daisy mae- your description of the liberal arts college oddly sounds like my current college.Eugeniehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01312243477847551650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25119479266325689982009-01-14T14:17:00.000-06:002009-01-14T14:17:00.000-06:00I am really relieved and happy to read this. As a...I am really relieved and happy to read this. As a non-A student, some research opportunities were not available to me, but those outside my undergraduate institution (specifically at another college with a whole department for my field) were available and enormously useful. The people who at some point learned my GPA, usually by asking, frequently told me I must be lying, it was so low at one point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-80623807848210957152009-01-14T14:03:00.000-06:002009-01-14T14:03:00.000-06:00I come from a University abroad with a 0/10 gradin...I come from a University abroad with a 0/10 grading system. My GPA was 9.85, which put me probably among the best 1%.<BR/>When I approached a professor to join his lab as an undergraduate, I was devastated to find out that he thought my GPA was too good! He basically told me that great grades usually meant no so great research skills, and suggested that I slowed down and started getting a few 9s and 8s. He reluctantly took me anyway, which ended up working great to the point that we now (15 years after) laugh about it. I stayed in his lab for my Ph.D. (very common in my home country), and he still says I was his best graduate student... even with my off-chart grades!<BR/><BR/>a FSPAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23393834327555722652009-01-14T13:23:00.000-06:002009-01-14T13:23:00.000-06:00I was a B-B+ student UNTIL i took a semester of re...I was a B-B+ student UNTIL i took a semester of research abroad. I got back, and was a straight A student for the rest of my course. It really helped me focus on what's important, and somehow my newfound enthusiasm carried over to the driest, less relevant subjects too. Then I went on for PhD, postdoc, tenure-track....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-88324654422223682272009-01-14T13:11:00.000-06:002009-01-14T13:11:00.000-06:00The corollary in the performing arts is do you wan...The corollary in the performing arts is do you want to cast A) the excellent but high maintenance "star" performer or B) the good worker who's always prepared at rehearsal and willing to pitch in on what needs to be done? Just about everyone learns "B" is the correct choice in virtually all cases after one experience with "A" (the exception being a show that one person has to carry).usagibrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08922403352955062098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-7536597415022525772009-01-14T12:34:00.000-06:002009-01-14T12:34:00.000-06:00I personally prefer B students. I myself was one, ...I personally prefer B students. I myself was one, afterall!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60489507535490783022009-01-14T11:58:00.000-06:002009-01-14T11:58:00.000-06:00Yes, I found the same. I actually much prefer B st...Yes, I found the same. I actually much prefer B students as undergraduate researchers. My motivation is mainly personality. Since undergraduate projects are not probably the projects that will bring the next Science paper (with maybe some exceptions), a B student that is hard working, smart (it's not that easy to get a B either) and doesn't have an arrogant attitude is more than good enough. And by doing research they can evolve, learn and better themselves even more. Some of them have great potential of success.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17986122130906798872009-01-14T11:56:00.000-06:002009-01-14T11:56:00.000-06:00Ummmm. . . Can I say "word." This is so true. I've...Ummmm. . . Can I say "word." This is so true. I've worked with undergrads who got the highest grade in a 300 person O-chem course who can't do research to save their lives and I've worked with stellar B-level undergrads who tear sh*t up in the lab. Book smarts coupled with good memorization and test taking skills is not really a good thing if you want someone who can 'think' about what they are doing in the lab.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-48410209863800159622009-01-14T11:34:00.001-06:002009-01-14T11:34:00.001-06:00Perfect students can't deal with failure. Science...Perfect students can't deal with failure. Science is full of little failures, with occasional great successes. People who can't deal with failure are unlikely to succeed at science.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-21023780925831394832009-01-14T11:34:00.000-06:002009-01-14T11:34:00.000-06:00I want to thank you for this post! As a solid B st...I want to thank you for this post! As a solid B student in my undergrad I was told I would have a very hard time getting into graduate school. However, I found an advisor that gladly took me under her wing, as she understood that high grades didn't necessarily equal A-class research. <BR/><BR/>I find when I talk to PhD candidates I work with now that I consider very good researchers, most of them say they did not have great marks in undergrad. The problem in undergrad classes is, if you're not a good test-taker, you won't do well. It's unfortunate that students aren't "tested" on their lab/research skills (critical thinking, both collaborative and independent work, etc.).Alyssahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01695509619557410413noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-70075658855563537582009-01-14T11:29:00.000-06:002009-01-14T11:29:00.000-06:00Yup, another B student here who always did well in...Yup, another B student here who always did well in research, even starting in high school. I've seen many A students flail at trying to do something that requires more than just a perfect memory, such as actual problem solving skills. That's probably more a reflection of the typical way things are taught and assessed than either the A or the B students themselves, though.Arlennahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04199564304824250359noreply@blogger.com