tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post1773841111728667098..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: What It Takes To LeadFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28905166035807226712011-07-18T02:02:09.300-05:002011-07-18T02:02:09.300-05:00maybe Katie saw the situation as you being akin to...maybe Katie saw the situation as you being akin to Joe's secretary because you were doing the grunt work (i.e. the actual work) while he appeared to sit back and just give his stamp of approval.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-49813376265422681002010-12-15T15:57:49.139-06:002010-12-15T15:57:49.139-06:00Interesting take... As a grad student for many yea...Interesting take... As a grad student for many years and therefore someone whose been away from the domestic life (as the kid) for many years, I'm going to go with Occam's razor on this one. Katie, a busy mother and not as tech savvy read the most recent email in her inbox and in the interest of time made the assumption that Joe came up with the idea.<br /><br />I doubt it was because she believes mothers are expected to participate and impressed that fathers do. Or perhaps she is deeply resentful of your being a FSP rather than a stay-at-home mother and sent the email to specifically slight you?<br /><br />Who knows? I've been away from soccer mom activities for a while now, so that's just my initial opinion. And like you said, we'll never really know the real reason why Katie decided to thank Joe for his leadership.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56332037390349277522010-11-30T01:47:23.435-06:002010-11-30T01:47:23.435-06:00spot. on. Men get extra credit for parenting at wo...spot. on. Men get extra credit for parenting at work and at home. SO typical!geomomnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-8351142555626754452010-11-29T21:51:54.984-06:002010-11-29T21:51:54.984-06:00That's why I wrote "OK, I know that there...<i>That's why I wrote "OK, I know that there are many benign explanations for Katie's awe of Joe's organizational skills.."</i><br /><br />NOO, FSP! Let the anonymous posters explain to you, over and over, why you are probably wrong! Don't interrupt them with <i>facts</i>.<br /><br />Just because you actually <i>wrote down</i> on record that there are benign explanations doesn't mean you aren't still too stupid to think of benign explanations (just like your written record of leadership in no way indicates that you ever led.) :pBagelsannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-86662195926113055082010-11-27T10:53:25.429-06:002010-11-27T10:53:25.429-06:00I agree with your explanations as most likely but ...I agree with your explanations as most likely but consider: perhaps he was more assertive in his wording ('finalize' vs 'propose tentative' -- he wasn't asking people to think) and thus got the credit. I tend to be very unassertive and have had similar experiences many times (though I am neither female nor a parent).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-85279246042368704042010-11-25T03:07:52.994-06:002010-11-25T03:07:52.994-06:00Being a father, I always get the opposite (and equ...Being a father, I always get the opposite (and equally bad) treatment. Most moms simply assume that I am more incompetent than them at parenting simply because I am a guy. I wish these roles weren't so stigmatized!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47762711756599979632010-11-24T20:29:50.284-06:002010-11-24T20:29:50.284-06:00Subsequent carpool emails dealt with the practical...Subsequent carpool emails dealt with the practical issues at hand. Joe is a nice guy and does his share of driving, including the early morning drives that are my least favorite, and that's really all I care about. I have never met Katie, but I like her daughter and am happy to drive her around with the others to these Activities.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34690136358826964962010-11-24T19:32:26.318-06:002010-11-24T19:32:26.318-06:00And did Joe have the good manners to send another ...And did Joe have the good manners to send another email correcting Katie's error?Rosie Redfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06807912674127645263noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32982558708511425252010-11-24T18:48:56.821-06:002010-11-24T18:48:56.821-06:00I give up. What does "SAHM" mean?I give up. What does "SAHM" mean?Pagan Topologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611788563582362688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84421282629813145122010-11-24T18:19:42.324-06:002010-11-24T18:19:42.324-06:00"(never mind that nobody puts diaper tables i...<i>"(never mind that nobody puts diaper tables in men's restrooms)"</i><br /><br />But the engineering building here (E2) has diaper tables in all the men's restrooms. So does the local bookstore downtown. In fact, just about any place around here that puts diaper tables in the women's restrooms also puts them in the men's restrooms.<br />I suspect that this is a regional thing, not universal.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-54405195126185925142010-11-24T16:27:26.283-06:002010-11-24T16:27:26.283-06:00Meadow, ok that makes a little more sense. If she ...Meadow, ok that makes a little more sense. If she really said that a woman would never choose to work then that is clearly silly. However, if it's just the choice of the word 'privilege' that you're put off by, I think you may have misunderstood. SAHMs generally use the phrase "I'm privileged to be a SAHM" in an attempt to *avoid* seeming smug or judgmental. We are trying to emphasize that we know we are lucky to be in a position that allows us to make a choice, that we understand that finances or other constraints make having an at-home parent impossible/undesirable for many families, that we are placing no judgment on anyone else's choices. It's exactly what I would expect someone to say who was sharing her history as a SAHM with a group of parents and was trying not to offend anyone. It's almost funny but also kind of depressing that a phrase that is intended to head off 'mommy wars' misunderstandings may have caused one in this case.Elizabethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23651198861817141712010-11-24T14:47:05.045-06:002010-11-24T14:47:05.045-06:00Our society quite rightly frowns (at least explici...Our society quite rightly frowns (at least explicitly) on patronizing women for "men's work" (e.g. "She's really an excellent scientist for a woman"). When will it stop being acceptable to patronize men for doing "women's work?"<br /><br />Joe did little, and people reacted as if he had done much, quite probably because he's a man. Does it please us when this happens with genders reversed? Does it honor anybody? Is it not rather an insult, as if nothing so much as a content-free e-mail could be expected of him?<br /><br />In my three years of being a father, I have been puzzled by this. If I change a diaper, I'm a hero/leader/Family Man (never mind that nobody puts diaper tables in men's restrooms). If my wife changes a diaper, nobody notices. The examples multiply.<br /><br />At the very least, give poor Joe a break on it until you see him bragging.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37511944251038890722010-11-24T14:42:07.445-06:002010-11-24T14:42:07.445-06:00Actually, I wonder if she's jealous of the att...Actually, I wonder if she's jealous of the attention your initial email got from Joe. I've noticed women do some really bizarre things when they think you're a competitor. (Even if everyone involved is married / already in a relationship / etc.). Also, that email she wrote sounds far too over-the-top sappy for just organizing a carpool. (And what the heck is "and others"? Did she seriously write that? Ugh.)<br /><br />Might be worth gathering some data on this woman when you see her next. If you detect any lurking jealousy, just gush a lot about your husband. I've pulled this maneuver on several occasions when some woman decides I am A Threat To Her Man, and it smoothes things over 100% of the time.Female Computer Scientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16445505185253882833noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74388564361848392842010-11-24T14:41:30.758-06:002010-11-24T14:41:30.758-06:00Elizabeth, it is not about SAHM. It is about insec...Elizabeth, it is not about SAHM. It is about insecure women who make themselves feel better by putting others down for their choices. The teacher in question believes it is a "privilege" to stay at home and a woman would never willingly choose to work. Several stay-at-home-moms rolled their eyes too. Why did you assume it was just working women who wouldn't like such a comment? <br /><br />This is about women who have such poor self-worth that they automatically look to men for leadership. (no wait Katie has the hots for Joe, really does make more sense)<br /><br />I say, if a guy exhibits this behavior its because the women in his life encourage it. (The chairman's wife/sister/mom should kick his butt when she hears his sexist assumptions.)<br /><br />And clearly I have too much time on my hands today ;)Meadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00922827724363185027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18933377533968705322010-11-24T13:22:05.401-06:002010-11-24T13:22:05.401-06:00Another great example. This is the stuff that make...Another great example. This is the stuff that makes us wonder - are we really being paranoid? Because we don't have comparable examples where the opposite occurred. In fact, I can't think of any. I can only think of instances like this one, where I proposed something, and a man showed up later, agreed with me, and walked away with all the credit. <br /><br />I like that this is at least a benign example where it did not hurt your career.Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4821587374894958222010-11-24T12:54:58.443-06:002010-11-24T12:54:58.443-06:00Meadow: For example, elementary school teacher (al...Meadow: For example, elementary school teacher (almost all women) are some of the most unintentionally sexist people I met. At back-to-school night my kid's Kindergarten teacher proudly introduced herself as someone who had the privelege of staying home with her kids while they were young and only when they got older dis she go back to school for her education degree. I silently groaned.<br /><br />Me: I know it's a lot to ask, but could we lay off the anti-SAHM commentary...there is nothing sexist (unintentionally or otherwise) about choosing to be a SAHM.<br /><br />Meadow: Elizabeth, This is not about SAHM.<br /><br />Me: ?Elizabethnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28472271965770628302010-11-24T11:41:17.589-06:002010-11-24T11:41:17.589-06:00Count your blessings, FSP. If people start realiz...Count your blessings, FSP. If people start realizing that you're good at organizing things, guess what you'll be stuck doing? :)Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18671228443696824542010-11-24T11:38:54.319-06:002010-11-24T11:38:54.319-06:00According to the logic of the scenario described a...<i>According to the logic of the scenario described above, a man is a leader when he agrees with a woman who took some initiative.<br /><br />Actually, on second thought, I don't have a problem with that.</i><br /><br />I do have a problem with that, because I think it leads directly to people assuming your work is your husband's. <br /><br />My husband and I don't work in the same field, but we have both been in synagogue leadership and it was widely assumed that when I was president, he was helping me with process and policy, but when he was president I was helping with clerical tasks. At one point the rabbi (a woman) suggested that I should take over his Email and calendar organization for him - this in response to my statement that I was looking for my next meaningful job in the congregation.<br /><br />I don't think there's anything to do about it in this one instance, but it does bother me. It bothers me a lot.Jayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15886225476339783827noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-51406657583643959962010-11-24T11:23:08.916-06:002010-11-24T11:23:08.916-06:00I have come to the conclusion that men's voice...I have come to the conclusion that men's voices are louder than women's, no matter who the listener is...and whether the communication is in person or via email. What astounds me is how people can completely distort reality to fit their perceptions...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-24384463344139808142010-11-24T11:19:20.080-06:002010-11-24T11:19:20.080-06:00I have a FEP colleague that this recently happened...I have a FEP colleague that this recently happened to - she and MEP are co-advising a student, but she does most of the work (meetings, etc). Student needed some letter for visa/scholarship type thing, and MEP asked FEP to help - student offered to write letter draft and made NO MENTION of FEP in it (only MEP) - forwarded it to FEP for her to get MEP's signature. <br /><br />student is female. sigh. why can't women give women credit? did she think it would look bad that her advisor was a woman?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-87398074515178523592010-11-24T10:44:27.549-06:002010-11-24T10:44:27.549-06:00Anon 9:30 who is actually my colleague -- Yeah, th...Anon 9:30 who is actually my colleague -- Yeah, that was weird, but I didn't mind that he gave you credit for what was essentially a clerical task. In fact, I wish our chair did not have such a high opinion of my clerical skills, and I hope that he now transfers this admiration to you!Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-59957020018451501832010-11-24T10:43:56.867-06:002010-11-24T10:43:56.867-06:00Elizabeth, This is not about SAHM and mommy wars. ...Elizabeth, This is not about SAHM and mommy wars. Has nothing to do with mothers. <br /><br />Math Girl, I got that all the time from day care. So I acted incompetent and forgetful at such stuff (don't we all know a guy who does that). I liked the ladies there and still take my kid back to visit and they laugh about my incompetence (knowing fully why). <br /><br />After reading the comments I vote for "Katie has the hots for Joe" That's it ;) no futher analysis needed.Meadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00922827724363185027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74729276080127140342010-11-24T10:02:35.559-06:002010-11-24T10:02:35.559-06:00I agree with Anonymous...
Katie has the hots for ...I agree with Anonymous...<br /><br />Katie has the hots for Joe ;-)<br /><br />(this would infuriate me, if I were in your situation)Eilathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04385916134242030549noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-45297121650930884092010-11-24T09:38:49.440-06:002010-11-24T09:38:49.440-06:00The "only women care about their children'...The "only women care about their children's education" meme is a strong one. I go to PTA meetings at my son's high school. The first meeting of the year was about 20% men, but by the third meeting I was the only male there. There is no intrinsic reason I can see for this (meeting time, format, content of discussion, ...). The women-only meme does seem stronger at public schools than private ones locally (all the men at the first meeting had had their kids in private schools for middle school).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-59358517001269271862010-11-24T09:30:27.827-06:002010-11-24T09:30:27.827-06:00Beyond carpool.. I am an MSP and I co-advise a few...Beyond carpool.. I am an MSP and I co-advise a few students with an FSP. Lately, the university has asked advisers to write an annual report on grad student progress, which is read and signed by the student, and put in A FILE. For the students we co-advise, FSP took the initiative of writing the letters, asked me and the students to come to her office for a brief discussion and for signature, and everyone walked away happy (mostly). At the next faculty meeting, our department chair announced that these letters were slow coming and singled ME out with (excessive) praise for getting my act together early and efficiently. My FSP colleague and I exchanged a glance across the table and started laughing, because this is so predictable it has become funny.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com