tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post1988695920582797053..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Check Us OutFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47542792689662402862011-09-05T12:41:45.330-05:002011-09-05T12:41:45.330-05:00I wish i had known this before i joined PhD. I had...I wish i had known this before i joined PhD. I had to switch advisors and my previous advisor had a good track record of funding and publishing until 2005 and between 2005 and 2007 he didnt do any work.<br /><br />Had i known what to look for, i would never have approached him and lost out on 3 years of PhD life since by the time the university arranged for switching of advisors i was into my 4th year. He did not do anything at all, no advising nothing.<br /><br />This is especially true for students from other countries who have no idea what to look for. I remember i searched for a lot of information on the internet about what to look for in a potential advisor but unfortunately for me i didnt come across this adviceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-24251275501861475732011-09-04T14:08:51.373-05:002011-09-04T14:08:51.373-05:00When one of my undergrad advisees is deciding on p...When one of my undergrad advisees is deciding on potential departments/advisors, I sit down with them at a computer and we do a bit of research together. It doesn't take much time, and the students find it helpful. They are very interested in searching for grants and publications, and later say that they are glad that they learned how to do basic searches for this type of info.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68443865366434368802011-09-04T13:44:07.336-05:002011-09-04T13:44:07.336-05:00I've never heard of undergrads researching the...I've never heard of undergrads researching the grant status of potential grad advisers—that seems like it borders on paranoia. It also doesn't provide much useful information, particularly in fields where funding comes from a variety of different sources (our tiny department has funding from NSF, NIH, HHMI, and industrial sources—it would take some really good search skills to find out exactly what funding each faculty member has).<br /><br />Publications and recent grads don't tell you much about funding. My publication rate has been roughly constant, despite wild fluctuations in funding, and my "recent grad" rate went way up just after my funding ran out.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20470175676622157082011-09-04T13:28:49.114-05:002011-09-04T13:28:49.114-05:00Perhaps I got the "tone" of the post wro...Perhaps I got the "tone" of the post wrong. My amazement is not that students aren't searching Fastlane for awards information. I am only surprised when there is very easy-to-find information -- such as on an up-to-date faculty webpage -- but students either didn't bother to click past a directory page, or they don't know that it is important (in many fields) for a PhD advisor to be an active researcher. Hence the post -- to provide some help to any students to happen to read this and also perhaps to prod some undergrad advisors into being proactive in giving this kind of advice to their grad-school-applying students.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-12511801452098511052011-09-03T23:57:58.035-05:002011-09-03T23:57:58.035-05:00Oh, and to add to the funding complications - in m...Oh, and to add to the funding complications - in my subfield, at least, often funding doesn't just go to the PI. It's split among CoIs (often at several different institutions). But you can only search successful HST proposals by PI.<br /><br />So I can pretty much guarantee that you yourself would be unable to figure out jack squat about the funding levels of my former PhD advisor. And you expect undergrads to do better?<br /><br />First rule of teaching is to figure out where your students are coming from, and realize it's not the same place as you. That's why they're students, and you're the teacher.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-14139947775323691332011-09-03T23:49:08.041-05:002011-09-03T23:49:08.041-05:00Most of your problems sound like your departments&...Most of your problems sound like your departments's fault, not the students'. Do you not list any of this vital information on a department webpage? <i>I've</i> never used Web of Science (in my subarea of physics, we use a different literature database - you expect students to know all this?). I didn't know the advisor status of faculty in my PhD department until I'd been in the department several years. I didn't know how many students <i>my advisor</i> had advised until the day I was wearing the tam and gown (literally).<br /><br />How many undergrads know <i>anything</i> about where funding comes from? In astrophysics, a lot of it doesn't come from NSF - do you know where it comes from? You might guess NASA (and you'd be right), but you'll never find it on the NASA webpage. You'd have to search, say, the HST proposal archive, and that doesn't tell you anything about dollar amounts.<br /><br />Damn, give the students a break. Undergrads don't know the intricate details of how academia works, or what your specific department is like, or what <i>your specific subfield of physics</i> uses for literature databases and funding. If there's all this stuff they need to know, <i>tell them</i>. Make a webpage with this info for your department. List it in the application materials. Applicants will thank you! And you won't get pissed off for no valid reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-78597417411475268092011-09-03T08:15:48.983-05:002011-09-03T08:15:48.983-05:00I agree that it would be good for prospectives to ...I agree that it would be good for prospectives to find out if the advisor has grant funding, but I worry that your specifically advising them to go to Fastlane is too specific. There are MANY other sources of funding, and if someone has a big private grant or grants from some agency that the undergraduate doesn't know about, then they'll never find this out by poking around agency websites. <br /><br />A much better way is to ask people at the institution. Certainly the admissions chair of the department would know. But another indication is simply whether the person has other students and postdocs. If so, then they surely have grants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17309982246079140322011-09-03T02:25:44.681-05:002011-09-03T02:25:44.681-05:00I agree with most commenters that it's a bit m...I agree with most commenters that it's a bit much to expect an undergrad to know all the ins and outs of what really goes on in the ivory tower. My own parents are in academia, but in a completely different field, and I never would have thought that the field I ended up in would be the rat race that it is, nor would I have ever thought to look into the things you mention. Without already knowing the ins and outs of the particular field, it's practically impossible to get all the required information you refer to (especially with websites being out of date, funding coming from all over the place, departments not distinguishing between their slacker and star professors). On top of that, the professor with all the money and the high impact papers is not necessarily going to be the best mentor for <i>you</i>.<br /><br />But there is also something that concerns me even more. If everyone went ahead and picked their advisor/program based on a checklist and not on a "this looks interesting" gut feeling, I am 100% sure my current field would be populated by back-stabbing, self-centered, cut-throat fast-track people on their way to the top more than it already is. It took me until my postdoc to realize that if you want to make it to said top (i.e. a tenure track position) you had better jump on moving trains. But perhaps that's what we want to tell our youngsters. It would take all the fun out of academia, though. I guess what I am trying to say is: Yes, students need some common sense and intelligence when they apply for grad school (or postdocs). But not everybody wants to (or should!) live life like it's a check-list that gives you the perfect solution if you just check all the boxes.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56558952466832077962011-09-03T01:17:43.944-05:002011-09-03T01:17:43.944-05:00"these students saw the professor's field..."these students saw the professor's field of interest listed, saw that it corresponded with their interests, and then went no further."<br /><br />Yep that was me. I don't see how I could have been expected to know the in's and out's of what makes a professor a 'good' researcher vs not. No one explained to me, I didn't know who to ask and what to ask. I assumed that all professors were more or less the same. So, what drove my choice in advisor was topic of research, and word of mouth that that person wasn't a complete jerk.<br /><br />It wasn't until I became a grad student and was working for an advisor, that I started to learn how the whole research/academic enterprise works. I don't see how else I could have known before having become part of the system myself. Are 20-21 year old undergrad students supposed to have a-priori knowledge of how the academic research enterprise works. <br /><br />In the end I did alright despite my ignorant start to grad school. I got my PhD, did several years of productive postdoctoral research, won some awards and fellowships, and have made a personally satisfying career as a scientist in a national lab heading my own group which includes grad students and postdocs and other staff scientists. But now I do try to give advice to prospective grad students (such as the bright young undergrads who join our summer undergrad program) and new students whenever possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-70788299766587459332011-09-03T00:36:18.790-05:002011-09-03T00:36:18.790-05:00Thanks. I'm seriously considering applying to ...Thanks. I'm seriously considering applying to graduate school this fall, and I would not have thought to search for grants. <br />#1, #3, and Web of Science in general are all things that I was previously aware of, but I have excellent advisers. (Also, I read scientists' blogs...)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68990083561876518812011-09-02T22:01:53.561-05:002011-09-02T22:01:53.561-05:00I was geographically limited, so I just applied to...I was geographically limited, so I just applied to the two nearest universities and decided to take whatever I could get. I wasn't sure which professors would be taking students when I would start on my Masters' thesis, so I customized my statements to mention areas of research that were specific to my interests, but broad enough that they were related to several professors. <br /><br />I got accepted at both universities and decided to move out of my alma mater, but in hindsight, I should have put more effort into contacting faculty and going to the grad open houses even if it meant skipping classes. At the very least, it would have made me more comfortable about my application and contacting people I need to get in touch with to sort out the details. <br /><br />The good news is, I'll still be geographically limited when I start on my PhD application next year, so I can make up for it then.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-64165578670127273932011-09-02T19:57:27.878-05:002011-09-02T19:57:27.878-05:00This is all great advice, but I agree with the man...This is all great advice, but I agree with the many commenters above who said that it's totally beyond the experience of most grad school applicants. It requires a very sophisticated knowledge of the academic ecosystem to think about the sorts of things you're suggesting. Very few undergraduates have this kind of cultural knowledge about academia. I didn't, despite having done substantial undergraduate research and having excellent mentors. Virtually none of my peers or the students I've taught did (excepting those with academics as parents). So, thanks for the advice, but cut the applicants some slack.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25785406845206054712011-09-02T16:59:13.997-05:002011-09-02T16:59:13.997-05:00FSP, all good advice. However, as several have sa...FSP, all good advice. However, as several have said, the application process is a first test of whether applicants need a recipe for finding their desired programs or if they can think for themselves.<br /><br />When I applied, I polled 4 or 5 faculty in my undergrad school, extracting a list from each and comments why they excluded some choices of others. I then narrowed their nominations to 5 schools with one safe choice, and then visited them all before deciding. The visits provided at least half the information - never decide before visiting. The discussions and visits gave me a view of the potential advisors.<br /><br />If prospective students can not design a good way to make a sensible decision on a school and an advisor, maybe they are not cut out for research, which requires even more relentless investigation, and often with less reward.<br /><br />Finally, I usually advise students NOT to tie themselves into one project for their graduate careers, and rather find a program allowing a variety of projects. Winding up with just one strong research project is risky, diversification is better.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-22084940701424905682011-09-02T15:24:08.590-05:002011-09-02T15:24:08.590-05:00This is great advice, but I think it's unreali...This is great advice, but I think it's unrealistic to be surprised that students don't already know it (and for the record, I am usually not on the "show some love for the clueless" side in these debates).<br /><br />I know to check this sort of thing out (though I didn't know all the tips that FSP gave). But I'm already an MS student, I'm a little older than the average grad applicant, I've had more experience in the field, and I'm in a social group where many people go to grad school (so I've seen people burned by lack of advisor funding).<br /><br />When I was an actual undergrad, I knew that peer-reviewed papers were academic currency, and that money for research (and grad student RAships) came from grants...but it never would have occurred to me that there were tenure-track or tenured faculty, listed on their department/program website, who didn't have grants and actively do research (my undergrad was a top-tier R1). I remember being shocked when I finally did realize this.<br /><br />So anyway, this is great advice for prospective grads.CSgradnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4115961707557396362011-09-02T15:13:05.544-05:002011-09-02T15:13:05.544-05:00The student society of my undergraduate program pu...The student society of my undergraduate program put on a yearly information night for grad school applications. They got a panel of profs, grad students, and nearly-finished undergrads who'd been accepted for grad studies to offer advice, answer questions, and discuss their experiences. Maybe other places can do the same - I found it very helpful.outoftunenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17221061252476959162011-09-02T14:27:03.181-05:002011-09-02T14:27:03.181-05:00I was definitely one of those undergrads who just ...I was definitely one of those undergrads who just applied to labs because they "sounded cool". I was completely unaware that I should be looking at publication records, funding, etc. Luckily, through pure serendipity, my graduate experience was great and I learned about all the things that I should have asked and applied that to my postdoc search. <br /><br />Great post for those on the hunt for a grad school advisor!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79935943291771627132011-09-02T13:18:08.583-05:002011-09-02T13:18:08.583-05:00This is of course good advice. Still, it's fu...This is of course good advice. Still, it's funny that you suggest that prospective students check Fastlane to see if the professor is funded. This is something that physical science students need to learn about.<br /><br />On the other hand, from reading the biomedical side of the science blogosphere, it would appear that biomed grad students already come in knowing about <a href="http://scientopia.org/blogs/science-professor/2011/03/22/rat-race/" rel="nofollow">R2D2 grants</a> and all that, and the more ambitious ones will probably have already decided that they won't work for an assistant professor unless he/she is a superstar who came in with K9 funding (or whatever it is that they call their stuff for new professors).Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68147745289905462762011-09-02T13:04:28.719-05:002011-09-02T13:04:28.719-05:00Well, I would guess that there are two things in a...Well, I would guess that there are two things in applicants' minds that prevent them from omitting inactive profs. The first is the fear that they might insult the professor if said prof is actually still active. The second is the fear that they might look foolish or ignorant if they omit the name of a famous figure in the field. <br /><br />Also, it's pretty hard to determine with certainty whether or not someone is inactive without insider information.Williamnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-80156303323767074502011-09-02T11:32:24.707-05:002011-09-02T11:32:24.707-05:00Could you elaborate what constitutes a "good ...Could you elaborate what constitutes a "good fit" when you are going through prospective faculty applications ?Funny Researcherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02971957974804668620noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74600389489236957602011-09-02T11:21:25.109-05:002011-09-02T11:21:25.109-05:00My graduate school search has taken a similar path...My graduate school search has taken a similar path to what you mention. Specifically, I'm putting together a database of recent research in my field (felid biology and ecology), and ranking each study by my level of interest. Once completed, I'll sum each university's scores together, which will give me a decent indication of which universities are actively publishing in the areas that interest me the most.<br /><br />It's an admittedly overboard way of doing things, but I think that it will leave a bit less to chance.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11562778741205700072011-09-02T10:28:34.770-05:002011-09-02T10:28:34.770-05:00I doubt most student advisors would be savvy enoug...I doubt most student advisors would be savvy enough to counsel undergraduates to look at a prospective mentor's publication list or recent grant awards. This is something that is totally beyond a typical undergraduate's experience. Advisors talk about coursework, requirements for major, and graduating on time. I think talk about careers is left up to a career center. Who, then, should be teaching prospective graduate students about how to search for a mentor who is currently producing interesting work in a field? Do YOU bring this up in lectures? Do you have undergraduate seminar sessions to discuss this? Advisors, in my experience, have too many students to 'advise' as it is. You're expecting them to add to their burden of work by helping their undergraduates get the kind of grad school placement they need? I think this information should be taught to undergrads by their current professors -- starting in their junior year -- in regular classes. It's not something you can look up under 'how to apply to graduate school', is it?Barbnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47610601939392972932011-09-02T10:18:25.645-05:002011-09-02T10:18:25.645-05:00"Has the potential advisor had a grant in the..."Has the potential advisor had a grant in the last 3-5 years? For NSF, you can go to their main website, select Search Awards, input the name of the relevant professor in the field labeled "Principal Investigator (PI)", and check the box for "active awards"."<br /><br />Wow thank you FSP for this! Can't believe I didn't know about it.... as an nth year grad student currently looking for a postdoctoral position this is very helpful!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-76428209053186480982011-09-02T09:59:58.005-05:002011-09-02T09:59:58.005-05:00I think you are under-estimating how hard it reall...I think you are under-estimating how hard it really is for a prospective graduate student to learn about prospective advisors. <br /><br />Your make the assumption that students have some sort of advising from their undergraduate institution and that they're applying directly out of undergrad. Many people don't have undergrad advisors and/or are applying to graduate school in a somewhat or completely different area from their undergraduate advisor. Many people also go work outside academia for a while after undergrad and before grad school. (I highly recommend doing so, in fact.) So many prospective grad students either don't have an undergrad advisor to turn to, or else are spatially and temporally separated from the advisor; they're flying solo on this. I was one such prospective. <br /><br />Next, you assume prospective students know that journal articles are the currency of research. I didn't know this until I became a grad student.<br /><br />Finally, funding info doesn't appear to be very useful for my current field (ecology). One could get funding from NSF, but also from state agencies, USDA, NIH perhaps, EPA... I looked up my (senior, prestigious, famous, very active) advisor in the NSF database like you suggested and nothing is listed there for five years. But that's completely misleading as he has lots of research money coming in from different sources -- and the most recent NSF grant was a long-term one (though you can't tell that from the database). <br /><br />The most efficient way for a prospective to learn about a potential advisor is to talk to that person. Unfortunately that's not very efficient for professors. But if professors kept their webpages up-to-date with the information you mention, it would be much easier for the prospectives.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-87586541850266244592011-09-02T09:36:04.803-05:002011-09-02T09:36:04.803-05:00I suspect several things might be behind this even...I suspect several things might be behind this even if a prospective grad student does their homework. Many senior faculty have publications well past the point when their active research lab closes. For example, many advise current & former collaborators & get their name on papers. A lab might even have active papers several years after slowing down. In addition, review papers might make a person seem more active than they are.<br /><br />Checking grants is a good idea, but I'm not sure it would have occurred to me. It would also be bad to see they have little or no NIH/NSF grants & not realize someone has oodles of funding from foundation X.<br /><br />As for # of students, this is still incredibly hard to figure out because faculty webpages are notoriously out of date - particularly for very senior faculty, whether or not they have an active lab.<br /><br />The best idea would be to ask people in the field, but that assumes you already have connections.bscinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84888257185688538412011-09-02T09:20:03.728-05:002011-09-02T09:20:03.728-05:00When I was a prospective grad student, I am pretty...When I was a prospective grad student, I am pretty sure that I had no idea that this species of faculty existed and that I should watch out for them. If I looked at a faculty Web page and saw some old papers that looked interesting, I would have thought, "Cool, maybe I should work with this person."<br /><br />In fact, after I was accepted to grad school, I blithely emailed a person who had completely stopped doing research to see if I could work in her lab. Fortunately for me, she never replied, so I went to work with someone more suitable.<br /><br />Hopefully future students like me will take the excellent advice in this post.Charles Suttonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10380218499923073861noreply@blogger.com