tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post3226045480772056405..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Cruel & UnreasonableFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-48384131501518945672008-02-27T20:30:00.000-06:002008-02-27T20:30:00.000-06:00Your academic life story is amazing -- thanks for ...Your academic life story is amazing -- thanks for writing the comment and making the excellent point that being stubborn can get you far.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20498339625074589792008-02-27T20:25:00.000-06:002008-02-27T20:25:00.000-06:00I am a female Engineering prof. I am the most unc...I am a female Engineering prof. I am the most unconfident person I know. I don't break down when someone criticizes me, but I am not as effective at arguing my case and I sometimes feel autistic because I just seem not to connect with people. In fact, all I did in graduate school was learn to ignore people (which can be bad when you really do need someone's genuine feedback). At first, I would get irate when people would say terrible things like "You'll never pass the Qualifier", "You shouldn't submit that paper it's awful". But I studied hard to show them wrong and published the paper in a high-profile conference). Counseling helped me a little bit in college to cope, but I can't seem to repair my underlying disbelief in myself.<BR/><BR/>In fact, my grad school experience was "amazing" -- few profs or students I knew ever respected me or my work, but whenever I sent my papers out for peer-review, I got great reviews, I won student paper awards, etc. But because of my lack of confidence, I would never win much locally except maybe a teaching award because I tried so-hard.<BR/><BR/>Now as a tenure-track professor, it's extremely difficult (as you may imagine) because it's important to be confident and impress people to have collaborators and good students. I have had luck in getting a good student or two... and one of my students communicates our work better than me and supposedly impresses the other professors for me!<BR/>My relationship with my students is much better because they have to exhibit some respect otherwise I kick them out and leave them without funding. ;)<BR/><BR/>I also have had luck in finding a two male colleagues who are just able to see me for who I am and that I do have ideas that are valuable. But really, it feels like only 10% or less of the population is able to see-through lack of self-confidence.<BR/><BR/>So, the moral of the story is that STUBBORNNESS (really persistence and perserverance as my counselor would always correct me on) is the key to trumping lack of self-confidence but not really effective in solving it.<BR/><BR/>I am just forging ahead and "trying" to have fun while it lasts. But, I always feel like I'm fighting the odds and nature's force and that if that didn't exist, I could get ALOT more done..<BR/><BR/>Those are my two centers -- I love this blog.. THANK YOU! Keep up the great work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-10914110296457022322008-02-17T00:16:00.000-06:002008-02-17T00:16:00.000-06:00Of course the student recognises that there is a p...Of course the student recognises that there is a problem! Geez. As a female theoretical physicist who finished grad school at 40, I can assure you that a handful of assholes can make a life of poverty a living hell - literally, if you end up in hospital like I did. The problem is that so much criticism is condescension, not criticism. I get told all sorts of dreadful things about my papers by <I>people who don't anything about the subject at all</I>. But then, theoretical physics is probably the last bastion....<BR/><BR/>I would love to get some serious, constructive criticism. My defence examiner was WONDERFUL! I rewrote my thesis so that he (and others) could actually read it (although I admit it's still dreadful). The communication is difficult, because I have lived an entirely different life to these people. It's like trying to talk to aliens.Keahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05652514294703722285noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41539871623472274612008-02-16T19:36:00.000-06:002008-02-16T19:36:00.000-06:00Remember that some people just tear up really easi...Remember that some people just tear up really easily, whether or not they're actually upset. I tear up if I'm sad, or if I'm laughing, when I'm watching a movie, or even when I'm watching a happy story on the news. I tear up especially easily when I'm surprised or shocked by something. If I see anyone crying/teared up, I immediately tear up.<BR/><BR/>The problem is more that people assume that I'm feeling really deeply upset when I'm all teared up, when actually I'm not upset at all - people project their own feelings onto me, and they're just not true.<BR/><BR/>Actually I think this is something that makes it harder for women in science. I think women tend to react to a 'confrontation' by tearing up, while men tend to get angry. Because so many of our advisors are men, the woman's reaction is seen as weakness. Maybe if most of our advisors were women, the male response to get angry and defensive would be seen as more inappropriate (rather than being a good thing in sticking up for yourself) and we'd get posts about how to help male students who just hadn't learnt to control their anger and defensiveness.<BR/><BR/>No solution though. I just need to become a flinty-hearted person. I can't randomly tear up and still be taken seriously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38731530296219852502008-02-14T20:43:00.000-06:002008-02-14T20:43:00.000-06:00To the last anonymous - try Toastmasters. Clubs o...To the last anonymous - try Toastmasters. Clubs often have members who have English as a second language or who have strong accents. It's a great place to practice speaking. <BR/><BR/>Www.toastmasters.org is the home website - visit 2 or 3 clubs near you. Dues usually aren't expensive - ours are about the price of a cup of coffee per meeting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34235047531569374232008-02-14T12:52:00.000-06:002008-02-14T12:52:00.000-06:00I am very glad that you brought up this topic. To ...I am very glad that you brought up this topic. To some extent, this applies to me as well though in a different fashion. <BR/><BR/>I feel very self-conscious about having a foreign accent whenever I speak; so I try to speak as little as possible, which creates a vicious cycle -- not speaking out can be seen as being passive. On the other hand, in written communication I tend to be much more assertive and this counteracts to some extent my feeling of insecurity. <BR/><BR/>As a grad student, what can I do to "break out"? I'm not sure that I can afford "speech therapy" on a graduate stipend; I'm far above the level of ESL classes. I just can't find anything to fit my needs.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-82402375700873040242008-02-13T16:30:00.000-06:002008-02-13T16:30:00.000-06:00The previous comments have broken it into the two ...The previous comments have broken it into the two primary possibilities: the student needs to grow a thicker skin or get into therapy. Based or your description, I'd suggest the latter.<BR/><BR/>To answer your question, can it be overcome during graduate school? Yes. If the person is willing to take the steps necessary to overcome it. In an extreme case, that may include leaving school to deal with it. Changing a cycle like this is not simple, cannot be done easily, and despite empirical evidence to the contrary is still generally seen as some sort of personal failing (note a few comments above that have that tone, if not the explicit statement).<BR/><BR/>You're in a bad bind though as suggesting seeking help may be taken as a horrid criticism that ultimately makes the student minimize contact with you since you've told them you think they're crazy. <BR/><BR/>Does the student have any healthy relationships you're aware of? If the answer is no, you're probably SOL trying to do anything to help. "Hitting bottom," to borrow a not totally inappropriate term, may be the only thing that will cause the student to seek the required help (be it therapy, medication, or a significant career change).usagibrianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08922403352955062098noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-1261981266915781422008-02-13T04:11:00.000-06:002008-02-13T04:11:00.000-06:00I'm thinking that all this getting help and counse...I'm thinking that all this getting help and counseling is good. And I am certain that you (FSP) are doing a good job mentoring and advising the student(s).<BR/><BR/>But all the advice is going to fall on deaf ears if the student doesn't recognize that his/her attitude is causing or going to cause problems.<BR/>You can suggest all you want, but the need to change has to come from the student him/herself.<BR/><BR/>(I have commented on this in my own blog, <A HREF="http://labcoats.blogspot.com/2008/02/confidence.html" REL="nofollow">here</A> - it was posted before any of the comments went up. I didn't post it here because it was long, and I think I'm harsh in what I say...)Louhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11099716853888820543noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-17719072761765709642008-02-12T21:49:00.000-06:002008-02-12T21:49:00.000-06:00This question intrigues/worries me because it does...This question intrigues/worries me because it does seem that a disproportionate number of the Colossally Low-Confidence Students are women.<BR/><BR/>(Also, I would like to note that Janus's solution, while far from ideal for everyone, helped me a great deal.)Jackie M.https://www.blogger.com/profile/11863386402985710623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37646125314176282452008-02-12T20:18:00.000-06:002008-02-12T20:18:00.000-06:00Your student could be suffering from depression, o...Your student could be suffering from depression, or possibly from a surplus of jerks in her life. <BR/><BR/>After many years in academia and research, I have come to the conclusion that there are a lot of jerky people in the field who have few social skills and a lot of selfish needs to prop up their own egos. This wears a person down. Who knows what else is going on in her life? <BR/><BR/>A little kindness goes a long, long way for most students. Personally, I'm soooo tired of working with egotistical jerks who think that scientific discussion means attempting to club the other person over the head with their opinion. Even simple things, like being allowed to complete a sentence uninterrupted, are impossible with some of my colleagues. You personally may not behave this way to her, but continued exposure to this sort of behavior from others can make a person allergic to criticism or conflict of any sort.<BR/><BR/>This is one of the worst aspects of science and one of the ways that women are systematically driven out of it. When the only mode of debate is the intellectual version of a fist fight, many women are reluctant (at best) to participate. Hopefully, as more women enter the field, scientific discussion can be more of a conversation and less of an argument, or a giant you-know-what measuring contest. <BR/><BR/>Go easy on her. You're probably one of the only people who will even think about this issue at all. Many (but not all) other scientists are too busy trying to prove their intellectual superiority (not to be confused with actual science, of course).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29664739693301110312008-02-12T17:00:00.000-06:002008-02-12T17:00:00.000-06:00I strongly agree with the general sentiment 'to ov...I strongly agree with the general sentiment 'to overcome severe insecurity, seek outside counseling'. The advisor's role only goes so far, and being too easy on a student may spoil that individual, leaving him/her less well prepared for future professional situations. <BR/><BR/>Also, I know many lab groups already do this, but I have one other suggestion: holding a *casual* reading group. Our research group meets once a month for potluck/paper discussion at a professor/postdoc/senior grad student's house. Basic scenario includes friendly meal followed by discussion of paper/research topic. I was present before and after this became a regular event and am not the only shy student whose confidence has benefited from the exposure to friendly scientific banter. A caveat may be that I think our lab group is more laid-back than average; a friendly atmosphere is key to this learning experience.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-40533934310572407732008-02-12T13:31:00.000-06:002008-02-12T13:31:00.000-06:00Though therapy may be warranted, I have found that...Though therapy may be warranted, I have found that few take the suggestion without a long phase of defensiveness and blame toward the one who suggests it. A conversation where you (or her adviser or another friend) say, "I have noticed that you take professional criticism personally. It is not a personal attack or critique on you as a person. Our community exists because we are open to evaluate each other. Everyone gets defensive at times and some comments can be unnecessarily cruel, but please remember that this is constructive critique of your work. You have to learn to handle that if you're going to succeed here." <BR/>I find that an "I understand how you feel" conversation is often very helpful, especially if it's from an authority. And she will know that her emotions have been noted and she can choose to come off as the cryer or as a tougher version of herself.Emilyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07002438626643133563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58164718242205549182008-02-12T13:06:00.000-06:002008-02-12T13:06:00.000-06:00Knowing that "all" people are prone to make mistak...Knowing that "all" people are prone to make mistakes helps. Knowing that even great scientists make mistakes helps better. <BR/><BR/>Biographies of great scientists very often have good accounts of all the hardship they had gone through. Quite rarely have I seen them mention about the grave mistakes they have mad in academia, like Einstein's Cosmological Constant, which he later called as his biggest mistake. <BR/><BR/>If I remember correctly, I once read a book which had the works of one of the greatest physicists (think it's Heisenberg, not sure though). It was published after the demise of the physicist. The preface said something like this, "...he made several conjectures, most of them wrong." The only correct conjecture he made went on to change the way we look at Nature! <BR/><BR/>Richard Feynman always laughed at people who thought that he would never make a mistake and openly admitted to the failure of many of his lectures, although others might have thought otherwise!<BR/><BR/>I believe that people in academia should shed the fear of making mistakes and criticism at the very outset. People should understand that grads, post-docs, professors and even Nobel Laureates are only "human." They are not, and need not be, omniscient entities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30516721553241726562008-02-12T13:04:00.000-06:002008-02-12T13:04:00.000-06:00When I looked at the comments, I was happy to see ...When I looked at the comments, I was happy to see that the suggestion of counseling was coming up regularly.<BR/><BR/>I had a similar situation myself--during my second year of grad school, I became overwhelmed by anxiety and depression. I was basically on the verge of breaking down at all times, so anything negative pushed me over the edge. <BR/><BR/>I had to hit a point where I really wasn't functioning anymore--like I couldn't eat breakfast or lunch because the anxiety made me too nauseous to eat anything--before I finally accepted that I needed help if I was going to go on in grad school, or, you know, in anything other than moving back in with my parents and never leaving their house again. There's still a lot of stigma associated with getting help for depression/anxiety, unfortunately, and that held me back for a long time. <BR/><BR/>The decision to go on anti-anxiety medication and get counseling is pretty much the best decision I ever made in my life. It helped with the problems I knew I was having from anxiety, but it also made other things better, too--I'd been shy my entire life, and now I'm much less so, because I no longer have to face down this massive anxiety about every interaction with other people. Every aspect of my life is easier now. I still get anxious sometimes, like before giving an important talk, but it's at a reasonable level, and I can get past it.<BR/><BR/>As for the crying: I have always cried easily. I would tell anyone who doesn't to keep in mind that the threshhold for what makes <I>you</I> cry isn't the same for everyone else. So, if something makes someone else tear up, that doesn't mean that they're as upset about it as you would have to be in order to cry. And they're probably horribly embarrassed about how easily they cry, because it, again, is stigmatized. The best thing to do is to understand it means the person is some level of upset, and then just treat them however you would someone who you know was a little upset but not crying. If they're able to keep interacting with you through the tears, then keep talking. If they're so upset that they can't anymore, well, that is a different beast. But then, the problem isn't that they're crying, it's that they're very, very upset. <BR/><BR/>I can remember one time (before the meds) when I'd taught a class while being observed that had gone really badly for various reasons. I was feeling really bad and angry at myself for that already, and I needed a chance to work through those feelings, which in my case pretty much requires tears. But I had to talk to my observer about the class first, and even though he was very nice about it, I was still tearing up. It wasn't because of him, so much as it was because of myself. I <I>was</I> able to hold back the tears and not cry while I was teaching, which I think is important. And my observer was someone I had a good relationship with, who I didn't think would hold it against me if I did end up in tears. It is true that in one's career, there will be times when tearing up will be judged very negatively, and that one needs to learn to take criticism without getting very upset. I guess I just want to point out that some of the problem (maybe not in your case, but in general) comes more from people misinterpreting tears than anything else. <BR/><BR/>I'm much less self-conscious about my crying now than I used to be, and a large part of it is that now that I'm on meds, I cry much less easily. Like, a level of upsetness that would have made me cry in the past might not anymore. Everyone shows their emotions in different ways; crying is just one of those expressions. There's no objective standard for all people, saying someone who's crying must be X amount upset.<BR/><BR/>So, bottom line: if there is any way you can encourage this student to get checked for anxiety or depression, do so. I mean, this student must at least as unhappy with their lack of confidence as you are. If you can find a way to talk about how much they're going to be facing criticism throughout their career, and they need to find better ways of dealing with that, my guess is that they're going to agree with you on that. Even if they burst into tears at that point--that's not because you're criticising them, it's because you're talking about a situation that makes them miserable. And if they're really convinced it's not anxiety/depression so much as just a lack of self-confidence, then something designed to increase that confidence, like Toastmasters suggested above, would also be good. Or, you know, you can still send them to the university counseling center. Trust me, they've seen this before. They'll have suggestions for dealing with it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-22529428742402635162008-02-12T12:06:00.000-06:002008-02-12T12:06:00.000-06:00You can't cry in science because people look down ...You can't cry in science because people look down on you. I know: I'm a depressive and have started to cry in public on more than one occasion. It's mortifying and has always resulted in several weeks of people questioning my judgment on other issues. I have a disease; I'm not stupid! But the cultural taboo about mental illness causes the two to be equated, especially for women.<BR/><BR/>Up until senior year of college, my fragile state was handled by people treating me gingerly. Life doesn't do that, so it was a terrible disservice. Senior year, I was informed by my instructor (and department head) that I was totally unsuited to the field and that I was going to be forced out of grad school. I'm still not sure if I'm angrier that he told me this in the middle of class or that when he did so, I had to leave to go cry in the bathroom.<BR/><BR/>The only thing so far that has really helped with my "confidence issue" (which is a cocktail of imposter syndrome, childhood verbal abuse and depression) has been therapy. If it's acceptable within your academic environment, then I'd suggest that you <I>insist</I> on counseling for any student that routinely cries in response to criticism.<BR/><BR/>You can't cry in science, especially if you're a woman.Vodalushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11843259950260319604noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-80693362666198133442008-02-12T11:58:00.000-06:002008-02-12T11:58:00.000-06:00Hm, it is one of those hard things since it depend...Hm, it is one of those hard things since it depends so much on "how deep it really goes and how does it manifest"?<BR/><BR/>That said, my initial answer was no. Then I thought about myself and realised that I haven't the best self esteem and I managed through some pretty rought times but still, it comes down to "How to you handle critism? and what do you do with it?" <BR/><BR/>If you don't know it before grad school = maybe you can learn? I've learned a bit to understand that I am not a complete failure - just in some aspects ;)<BR/><BR/>And I still struggle the most with critism from the ones in the same department/group since I feel like a 15yr old disapponting my parents when they bring up things I haven't thought about or didn't know. When I am around "other" people, I don't care at all as much*.<BR/><BR/>I think you might need to talk to her about the harsh reality - she is going to get critism all through the education and the rest of her carreer but to be frank, it seems like she need to think about it in general since today it is hard to get a job without any critism so it's just to learn how to recieve it and who to listen to and take in.<BR/><BR/>*with care I mean, get sad feel like a failure and feel like the critism is just on me!challhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10421219663804628119noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81611884225348249982008-02-12T11:18:00.000-06:002008-02-12T11:18:00.000-06:00"I am not sure that the methods available to advis..."I am not sure that the methods available to advisors for being supportive and kind are sufficient to help a student overcome a severe confidence deficit."<BR/><BR/>"We sometimes discuss why I might feel like I do and why I sometimes react to situations in an overly sensitive way or back down too quickly during discussions. He puts things into a context of current & past students and faculty and even societal & gender expectations."<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure about this particular situation because of the subtleties I'm about to talk about, but I think far from most advisors actually realize there are such tools. let alone use them as much as Anonymous's advisor. I think subtle messages of discouragement can be sent over and over and over by not only advisors, but also other people you encounter in academia, especially to women of all colors and domestic men of color. Without knowing the race, gender and sexual orientation of the student, it's a little hard to comment. <BR/><BR/>It has been communicated to me (note: not *said* - you have to accept responsibility for ALL your communication, not only your verbal communication) repeatedly that the only thing that prevented me from being thrown out with a master's was Title IX, more or less. That's not exactly a confidence builder, and I'm sure if I had been a woman of color, I might have had just such a massive lack of confidence after a lifetime of being told I'm not doing what I'm supposed to. I have found that at least around me, professors are almost scared to acknowledge the role that society (and - quelle horreur - *subjectivity*!) plays in their everyday lives on almost every level. (No need to say hello when you meet acquaintances, collagues or friends, apparently. Racism, sexism and heterosexism don't exist. Anyone who claims otherwise is obviously just externalizing their imminent failure.) The lack of knowledge and self-awareness on the part of the professors around me is astoninshing, and the critical process can be used as a tool to weed people out. And by people, I mean non-White and/or female and/or gay people. <BR/><BR/>I really don't think you can answer your question without digging very deep into why they feel that way, and not just on a personal level as has already been suggested. Are they systematically oppressed in ways that has decreased their confidence to an almost absurd point? Are they at a double locus of oppression? Are they breaking strongly held stereotypes and paying a very high price for it? Do other professors and university staff communicate that theyre worthless to them, even though you (hopefully :x) aren't? Are they treated as Other by collagues?<BR/><BR/>I think asking these kinds of critical questions is very, very important, not only in order to help a particular student, but also from an ethical point of view. If the self-confidence issue is even in part due to systematic oppression, there is a moral and ethical duty to do something about that.Global Girlhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13119668041288146887noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11957497169564119382008-02-12T11:06:00.000-06:002008-02-12T11:06:00.000-06:00Confidence is over-rated. I knew a guy that exagge...Confidence is over-rated. I knew a guy that exaggerated his research results. He was confident, some might say a pathological liar. I would be more worried about overly confident students than the ones who are not confident.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79426208449689286782008-02-12T10:36:00.000-06:002008-02-12T10:36:00.000-06:00Maybe this emotional outburst is not going to happ...Maybe this emotional outburst is not going to happen again.. or at least not more frequently then once a season? Is that too much to cope with? <BR/><BR/>So, some people are a bit on the sensitive side, so what? FSP is doing her best to train her students and objective criticism is part of it, and this student shall (eventually) understand that. <BR/><BR/>One might make the extra effort to point out to this student that it IS the advisers' job to give critics as well, and that it is OK not to enjoy the process of being criticized. (Crying is a bit too much, but not liking it is cool)And if you did not give feedback, you would only be doing him/her a bad favor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-26022706198034562702008-02-12T10:21:00.000-06:002008-02-12T10:21:00.000-06:00Thank you for this post. I've been wrestling with...Thank you for this post. I've been wrestling with the very topic of confidence and how it determines the success/failure of a career in academia. In fact, it was your post about your colleague that prompted my interest in the topic. <BR/><BR/>Thanks again!Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01477707480338232435noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-5792536398638920232008-02-12T10:02:00.000-06:002008-02-12T10:02:00.000-06:00Counseling seems a good option. It was a pretty h...Counseling seems a good option. It was a pretty huge revelation when I learned not to take things personally, and that we were talking about science and my ability to communicate and not how dumb I am. <BR/><BR/>Hopefully your student will get past that second step, the one that causes trauma in our lab, where the student spends hours talking about themselves and how great their research is and sucking up other peoples' time looking for compliments and checking to see if they are still liked - you can't tell them to go away, because they are deeply offended (how could you be bored with THIS topic?) and or cry. <BR/><BR/>As for challenging students - I wholeheartedly agree. The field is to be an INDEPENDENT scientist. How can we expect independent thought in graduate school only? What kind of sheep are we making? A little failure never hurt anyone. A lot, sure, but kids need to be challenged or they challenge themselves in less productive ways.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-38212793840592432462008-02-12T09:58:00.000-06:002008-02-12T09:58:00.000-06:00I always cry when I am extremely angry (which is o...I always cry when I am extremely angry (which is often the case in science). As I age, I cry less and fume more. People think I am not confident, but inside I am more confident than my bad posture indicates.<BR/><BR/>Anyway, I agree that this person needs counseling. Maybe she should try a group activity like training for a marathon. Once she has something else in her life, she might not take criticsim so seriously.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-3591092325671024792008-02-12T08:35:00.000-06:002008-02-12T08:35:00.000-06:00It sounds like the person in question may be depre...It sounds like the person in question may be depressed or have other mental health issues. I might suggest (kindly) that he or she visit the campus health center and talk to a counselor. In fact I think nearly everyone trying to get through grad school could probably benefit from the occasional counseling session -- it's a very hard thing we ask people to do, and they shouldn't have to do it all on their own.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43943166771989328012008-02-12T08:32:00.000-06:002008-02-12T08:32:00.000-06:00This made be think of one of my more interesting g...This made be think of one of my more interesting grad school interviews. After saying my background, the faculty member interviewing me started asking questions about what I knew in the field. I commented to him that it was the first time at any grad school interview anyone bothered to check that I actually knew what I claimed.<BR/><BR/>He responded that his goal was just to push to the limits of my knowledge. Grad school (and research in general) is often about being at the limit of knowledge and the type of criticisms/discussions you mentioned. If a student negatively responds to being questioned or won't admit lack of knowledge, he considers that a warning sign.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-3729207621387009612008-02-12T08:23:00.000-06:002008-02-12T08:23:00.000-06:00I think that this problem is caused by the wrongly...I think that this problem is caused by the wrongly structured educational system in the US. Here in Europe we are now seeing more and more similar problems because we are moving in your direction, but the problem always existed here.<BR/><BR/>Children in primary and secondary school are not challenged at all and they are not taught to study independendly. When they are given simple math problems they are given very precise information on how to solve it. Basically children are being treated like babies until they go to university.<BR/><BR/>Now, when I went to university to study, it felt like paradise to me. Unlike in the US system we didn't have homework, compulsory attendence etc. So, what I did was to study from books, go to the exam and (usually) score a straight A. I did sometimes attend problem sessions. I liked discussing physics and math with my friends. But usually I just did the problems handed out at the problem sessions alone at home.<BR/><BR/>A few years later I became a TA some changes were made in the way we teach at university. The system now looks much more like the US system. We give the students compulsary homework. Students have to submit problems we select for them and it counts as part of the exam.<BR/><BR/>When I have to supervise the problem sessions, it feels much more like being in high school than in a university. The students are not so independent, they are used to doing things exactly as told. If I give them an exercise that requires them to do some independent thinking, then that's usually too difficult for them.<BR/><BR/>I.m.o. the best way to correct the problem is to give the students more responsibility. You abolish compulsary homework. Note that when you give homework that is to be graded, the problems necessarily have to be easy enough so that a good student can get a maximal score. However, the students should practice more difficult problems, problems that are so hard that you cannot reasonably expect even the brightest students to do well in.<BR/><BR/>This then makes the students very confident that they have completely mastered the subject after passing the course. They become very independent and confident of their abilities. You can give them some subject to study and write some report on or give a talk, and they can do it all by themselves with minimal supervision.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com