tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post3536601527502511214..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Delayed AdmirationFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-22106864995746976022008-12-24T18:39:00.000-06:002008-12-24T18:39:00.000-06:00I think a lot depends on what transpired when the ...I think a lot depends on what transpired when the individual was working with/under the mentor. If at that time in one fashion or another the mentor was less than enthusiastic about the student (and said so) then the comments are an admission of error and appreciation of accomplishments, although as many point out it could have been more graceful. If on the other hand the mentor was (falsely) enthusiastic at the original time, then both the that behavior and the current behavior are at least ungracious if not downright unpleasant.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-27873829517853646392008-12-24T00:44:00.000-06:002008-12-24T00:44:00.000-06:00Count me as a vote for the "this is fine" camp. O...Count me as a vote for the "this is fine" camp. Of course, I only say that because I tend to think that one or two of my professors underestimated me and, spiteful wench that I am, have dedicated myself to proving them wrong.<BR/><BR/>I guess this means that I owe <I>them</I> a thank-you note: apparently, nothing motivates me quite like spite.Notorious Ph.D.https://www.blogger.com/profile/08700875559325201086noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-69159434483749905372008-12-20T19:16:00.000-06:002008-12-20T19:16:00.000-06:00Agree with Alex. More than likely, your colleague...Agree with Alex. More than likely, your colleague sensed his advisor's feelings long before the advisor admitted to it, which if the case would eliminate any personal feelings of insult that I would feel. Quite frankly, the advisor's unspoken act of underestimating your colleague way back when was probably the worse insult. <BR/><BR/>Hearing "I underestimated you" may just as well have been a nice moment of acceptance/confirmation/approval from his old advisor.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-31695888243471650372008-12-20T15:28:00.000-06:002008-12-20T15:28:00.000-06:00Of course it's a crumb of praise! The old advisor...Of course it's a crumb of praise! The old advisor is trying to keep the younger colleague in his place. <BR/><BR/>If someone had a negative opinion of me in the past, why on earth do they need to tell me about it today?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61570013849488866092008-12-20T15:06:00.000-06:002008-12-20T15:06:00.000-06:00Hmmmmmm. I am with Alex et al.Yes I can see contex...Hmmmmmm. I am with Alex et al.<BR/>Yes I can see context matters, but... *if* the supervisor really *did* underestimate this person, it's a nice thing to say. With the other proviso that they knew at the time their supervisor didn't think much of them - and they probably did, unless they were particularly self-confident or dense. <BR/>MsPhD, I don't see that 'I'm impressed' could be an insult, either.<BR/>Mind you, I need validation from superiors (and people in general) due to low self-esteem...maybe where the person is coming from affects how such comments are interpreted.butterflywingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873407072604417252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-24247375155914275182008-12-20T13:08:00.000-06:002008-12-20T13:08:00.000-06:00I hear it as an insult. I hear "you seemed like su...I hear it as an insult. I hear "you seemed like such an idiot before, I couldn't imagine you'd be capable of anything worthwhile." From which it is safe to infer that you still *seem* like an idiot, but there is the hard evidence of your accoplishments to counter the impression.<BR/><BR/>It is interesting that there are so many different interpretations.yoliohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05377530393720341372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-22582099124811726382008-12-19T21:42:00.000-06:002008-12-19T21:42:00.000-06:00I think the Professor probably meant the comment a...I think the Professor probably meant the comment as a sincere compliment and is just socially inept, as are many people in academia.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-8419092773422081252008-12-19T20:31:00.000-06:002008-12-19T20:31:00.000-06:00I agree, you should add this to your book of etiqu...I agree, you should add this to your book of etiquette. <BR/><BR/>I think it's clear when people underestimate me, they don't need to say so. What I would like to hear later is exactly what you said, if they're proud of me (rather than that they're "impressed" since they always sounds like they expected less!).Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60936861657964954652008-12-19T18:04:00.000-06:002008-12-19T18:04:00.000-06:00"I underestimated you" is indeed "nice-ish" at be..."I underestimated you" is indeed "nice-ish" at best. <BR/><BR/>Little good comes from telling anyone what *you* expected him or her to achieve in his or her career-- actual successes, not past personal expectations, should be the subject of legitimate admiration. <BR/><BR/>A better version: "Your research has become increasingly impressive with time."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-42756991131662133162008-12-19T16:58:00.000-06:002008-12-19T16:58:00.000-06:00"Bestowing a crumb of praise."Yep.That's been my e..."Bestowing a crumb of praise."<BR/><BR/>Yep.<BR/><BR/>That's been my experience, almost to a T.<BR/><BR/>This looks like a great blog. I look forward to dropping in again soon.<BR/><BR/>Best--Shawnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00617713016933175728noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30029732007715323462008-12-19T13:52:00.000-06:002008-12-19T13:52:00.000-06:00So, what does the realization that faculty can be ...So, what does the realization that faculty can be wrong about students' potential mean, in an age where a mentor has an obligation to steer students who won't make it in academic science into non-academic careers? Should mentors encourage even lesser students, when the competition is so cut-throat? How do you know who will succeed and who won't?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-11946770398089968652008-12-19T12:11:00.000-06:002008-12-19T12:11:00.000-06:00I've heard similar things in the past about my per...I've heard similar things in the past about my performance and it has felt as if they were saying, "holy, cow I thought you were an idiot but low behold you came in and knocked everyone's socks off!" You aren't such an idiot!"<BR/><BR/>Which is nice, in that know they know I am capable and that I wasn't crazy in thinking they doubted me and my abilities.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68936645789032065722008-12-19T11:52:00.000-06:002008-12-19T11:52:00.000-06:00quite honestly, i would love to see the day where ...quite honestly, i would love to see the day where my MS advisor said that to me. i would take it as high praise indeed as he was rarely complimentary to us in person, instead preferred to tell other people we had done well. in short, during 3 years of working with him i rarely heard "you've done well", so "i underestimated you" would be nirvana.<BR/><BR/>it's good to see that this can happen and actually that other advisors actually debate about the best way to express praise to their students, both current and past.quietandsmalladventureshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13882640501776166034noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-42344976317914780822008-12-19T10:15:00.000-06:002008-12-19T10:15:00.000-06:00It's true that context is key. This ex-advisor was...It's true that context is key. This ex-advisor was not being humble and was not apologizing. He was bestowing a crumb of praise.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81189714969040127272008-12-19T09:36:00.000-06:002008-12-19T09:36:00.000-06:00I also agree with Alex and Michael. It seems like...I also agree with Alex and Michael. It seems like "I underestimated you" could be code for "You have become a very good scientist, no thanks to me," whereas "I am proud of you" could be code for "You have become a very good scientist, and I take some of the credit."Average Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13879007878874956437noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-5347965930562286172008-12-19T08:57:00.000-06:002008-12-19T08:57:00.000-06:00What may have happened is that the parting was dri...What may have happened is that the parting was driven by the under-estimation and what the adviser is saying is "I was wrong and I know it"EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30931714752826499052008-12-19T08:19:00.000-06:002008-12-19T08:19:00.000-06:00I agree with Alex, depends on the delivery, and th...I agree with Alex, depends on the delivery, and the person. If the guy treated his former student like crap and was really hard on him, this is basically an apology. That might actually be appreciated! But yes, "I'm proud of you" would have been much more appropriate.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-67627380873871067182008-12-19T07:53:00.000-06:002008-12-19T07:53:00.000-06:00I think it would be a better story if long-retired...I think it would be a better story if long-retired MS professor had said to the rock-star, "You've done pretty well over the years, and I'm proud of you for that. But you know something? I'd always thought you'd do more..."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79710280144670160492008-12-19T07:29:00.000-06:002008-12-19T07:29:00.000-06:00I agree with Alex. This guy was saying that he ha...I agree with Alex. This guy was saying that he had been in the wrong. It is not so much a compliment as it is a mea culpa.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-53642172187834076212008-12-19T04:10:00.000-06:002008-12-19T04:10:00.000-06:00Did your colleague know that his MS advisor didn't...Did your colleague know that his MS advisor didn't think the world of him back then? In that case, "I underestimated you" is appropriate. It strikes me as more honest than "I'm proud of you."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-89636770613872240432008-12-19T03:36:00.000-06:002008-12-19T03:36:00.000-06:00I agree with Alex, though I suspect my view is som...I agree with Alex, though I suspect my view is somewhat conditioned by Canadian/British/Antipodean cultural norms. To me: "I'm proud of you" is far more likely to denote egomania with its implied "and happy to have been responsible for putting you on the right track." Whereas, "I underestimated you" contains the implicit "and am very pleased that that didn't turn out to be a detriment to your career."<BR/><BR/>As the recipient I would <I>always</I> be sure that "I underestimated you" was intended as a sincere compliment, while "I'm proud of you" could always be fishing for "Oh, I never could have done it without you."Michael Alberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06406323435945694109noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-3884766454583893592008-12-19T01:46:00.000-06:002008-12-19T01:46:00.000-06:00FSP, I usually agree with you on matters of etique...FSP, I usually agree with you on matters of etiquette, but in this case I don't see it. As long as it is not delivered in a nasty way, "I underestimated you" seems like a fine way of telling someone that you admire what they have done, and tacitly owning up to any (mistaken) low opinion you might have expressed in the past.<BR/><BR/>Of course, it admits that you held a low opinion in the first place, but what is the great harm in this if the point is to say you were wrong to do so?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-21972763017832854272008-12-19T01:01:00.000-06:002008-12-19T01:01:00.000-06:00I think that "I underestimated you" is actually a ...I think that "I underestimated you" is actually a very humble statement. Or at least it could be, depending on how it's delivered.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com