tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post565393614658654678..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Rah Rah RahFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger33125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-8571447510734091002011-12-21T03:29:14.837-06:002011-12-21T03:29:14.837-06:00In my opinion, if you really want to know how pass...In my opinion, if you really want to know how passionate someone is about their research you should talk to his/her colleagues past and present, mentors and the people who have worked with him/her. That's what references on the CV are for.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-44538414450773005872011-12-18T15:17:30.418-06:002011-12-18T15:17:30.418-06:00In the case I'm thinking of, there were severa...In the case I'm thinking of, there were several factors that made this candidate a uniquely good fit for the institution in question: The institution has an unusual facility that is a perfect match to his research interests, and the candidate has a teaching and mentoring track record that is a unique fit to certain aspects of the institution in question, aspects not shared by come competitor schools. He was a perfect fit. The only "problem" is that he was an insanely accomplished perfect fit. They were fools to turn him down.<br /><br />(And, for the record, I'm not the one who was applying for that job, I'm just the one who got to listen to a friend lament a committee passing over somebody who's "too good.")Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-44660543952474180552011-12-18T10:47:50.926-06:002011-12-18T10:47:50.926-06:00To anon 12/17/2011 10:18:00 PM:
You missed point,...To anon 12/17/2011 10:18:00 PM:<br /><br />You missed point, departments do set deadlines, but even those are different. It is naive to think that one should give the same amount of time to both types of candidates.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20904873878619728862011-12-17T22:18:30.740-06:002011-12-17T22:18:30.740-06:00To anon at 12/17/2011 06:21:00 AM
This is naive. ...To anon at 12/17/2011 06:21:00 AM<br /><br /><i>This is naive. You make an offer, wait weeks and weeks until they say no, which they almost invariably do and by then all other good candidates are taken.</i><br /><br />You can make an offer, give them a deadline for deciding, and if they don't decide by the deadline, rescind the offer and offer the job to someone else.<br /><br />If your department can't set the boundaries and then you suffer for it, that's on you. <br /><br />sheesh.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-71208438419762667052011-12-17T06:21:32.185-06:002011-12-17T06:21:32.185-06:00you sort of have to (1) take them that their word ...<i>you sort of have to (1) take them that their word that they want to work at your institution and (2) thank whatever gods you believe in for the shining opportunity in front of you. </i><br /><br />This is naive. You make an offer, wait weeks and weeks until they say no, which they almost invariably do and by then all other good candidates are taken.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-72246328792188245082011-12-16T18:50:46.536-06:002011-12-16T18:50:46.536-06:00Anon at 4:03 pm reminds me of stories I've hea...Anon at 4:03 pm reminds me of stories I've heard of committees deciding that a candidate was "too good" and "would never come here."<br /><br />I sort of get that on one level. If the candidate's statement of teaching and research goals reads like something that would make more sense at a different sort of institution, with different resources and facilities, fine. But if the candidate's background, plans, and answers in interviews are a perfect fit, and the only "red flag" is that they've done everything expected only more and better, you sort of have to (1) take them that their word that they want to work at your institution and (2) thank whatever gods you believe in for the shining opportunity in front of you.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20768986490666291852011-12-16T16:03:42.930-06:002011-12-16T16:03:42.930-06:00At an interview for a non-academic position, I was...At an interview for a non-academic position, I was required to give a 15-minute presentation on my thesis work.<br /><br />The first comment? "You clearly love your research and probably do not want to work here."<br /><br />Which I can sort of appreciate, but exactly how boring was I supposed to make it sound in order to get the job?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-13009497814098332962011-12-16T14:35:55.650-06:002011-12-16T14:35:55.650-06:00To avoid bias in searches, its better to have more...To avoid bias in searches, its better to have more quantifiable and objective categories to grade applicants on, such as quantity and quality of publications, research impact, research fit to department, teaching ability...<br /><br />Vaguer and more subjective criteria such as "leadership" and "passion" give more scope for implicit and unrecognized bias to creep in.Annhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12518980340179305767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-86530345762459905812011-12-16T10:53:36.434-06:002011-12-16T10:53:36.434-06:00Is it weird and disturbing that I get some of my b...Is it weird and disturbing that I get some of my best thinking done while feeding/nursing my infant daughter? True story. Having to sit quietly with my hands occupied for quite a bit of time (often in the middle of the night) has been in fact quite intellectually productive!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-87846272740878479472011-12-16T06:44:36.259-06:002011-12-16T06:44:36.259-06:00There is a large element of performance art in bei...There is a large element of performance art in being a faculty. You have to "sell" your research, your results your teaching to varied audiences.EliRabetthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07957002964638398767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-83369352538048169032011-12-16T05:17:42.419-06:002011-12-16T05:17:42.419-06:00In my department, there seems to be a slightly dif...In my department, there seems to be a slightly different variant to PFR, namely the "fire in the belly," which to me adds an aggressive tone to the description. Many seem to find this a desirable quality in a candidate, but the term makes me gag, for some of the reasons mentioned already.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61861004217550840122011-12-15T23:52:11.464-06:002011-12-15T23:52:11.464-06:00In engineering the women are not as "hands on...In engineering the women are not as "hands on" as the men. I've had this ascribed to women who had been mechanics prior to becoming engineers and had to correct the mis-perception. But so often there's probably no one there to correct the perception. A woman might be promoted based on being "well organized" or good at project management, but no matter her actual qualifications is never as "technical" as her male peers. I assume technical, like PFR, is nice and broad in that it's a category you can fit whoever you want in it or not in it.FrauTechhttp://frautech.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-21065274600820259282011-12-15T18:25:07.691-06:002011-12-15T18:25:07.691-06:00Too many people seem to think that men have PFR bu...Too many people seem to think that men have PFR but women don't (as much), because women are so much more 'balanced' and care more about families. With a few (old) exceptions, my male colleagues are just as interested in having a good family life as my female colleagues. I see no difference along gender lines for more or less PFR.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-36728788088169683912011-12-15T17:39:56.396-06:002011-12-15T17:39:56.396-06:00PFR sounds like a euphemism for something. Somethi...PFR sounds like a euphemism for something. Something that has little or nothing to do with the qualifications of the candidate and mostly to do with who the powerful people on the search committee and in the department happen to just like better. Thus, option 2 falls well within the use of this euphemism or "code."<br /><br />I also agree that having one's life totally revolve around science, such as is the historical model for men with stay-at-home wives, is not the best model for a professor. (And if SAHW sounds perjorative, I mean it to be perjorative of those who think that's the only thing women should do.)<br /><br /> Diversity of thought makes for better science, which is why we need people who don't view PFR the same way as the establishment.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-52906049887098269032011-12-15T16:00:19.363-06:002011-12-15T16:00:19.363-06:00I'm at an R1 and we hire from the 'top'...I'm at an R1 and we hire from the 'top' programs in each subfield. This doesn't necessarily correspond to any national ranking of the institution as a whole, or even, in more rare cases, the department or program as a whole.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-87993332195438118492011-12-15T15:52:46.453-06:002011-12-15T15:52:46.453-06:00"As far as I can tell, the R1 schools will on..."As far as I can tell, the R1 schools will only look at applicants from Stanford, Harvard, MIT, CalTech, Princeton, Berkeley, and their ilk. My husband's department, for example, is unabashed about doing this. If you're not in a Top 5-10 program, you don't even have a shot at a tenure-track position, no matter what your research record. They won't even glance at your CV."<br /><br />This is certainly not the case in my Department which is at a top five State University. We DO look at the CV--pubs and the story they tell is the critical feature. I think that while many believe that who you know is the key feature, rather than what you did, most of us on search committees at good places think otherwise. It's true that we have hired folks from some of the places listed, but not because of their pedigree but because of their accomplishments. Two of our three Department HHMI Investigators did postdocs at places not on the usual top ten list, and the third did his graduate work at a place like that.<br /><br />With regard to Passion for Research, the intangibles are often what we use to try and distinguish the top three folks in a strong search. In reality we could probably flip a coin, but we need to make a decision. However, in the end, if we can get a colleague whose both a great scientist and who also will be fun to interact with, why not go that direction. <br /><br />Mark P.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-68558833676966243612011-12-15T15:19:30.668-06:002011-12-15T15:19:30.668-06:00And I do not think that 'passion for research&...And I do not think that 'passion for research' is mutually exclusive with having a so-called normal life, with family and friends and hobbies. It's more about perception than reality.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-76422655054021402052011-12-15T15:17:49.243-06:002011-12-15T15:17:49.243-06:00Re. flossing, I specified that the issue was telli...Re. flossing, I specified that the issue was telling people during an interview that you think about research while flossing, not just that you do such thinking. I always find such revelations during an interview strange. Some people will insert it as an aside, like "Actually, this particular idea came to me while I was in the shower." Some search committees may not want to know that.Female Science Professorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23332321023558941062011-12-15T12:52:06.810-06:002011-12-15T12:52:06.810-06:00Working at a large corporation in high tech, we do...Working at a large corporation in high tech, we don't compare candidates at all. We decide whether to offer after each interview. Either the person could be a valuable team member or not. <br /><br />It turns out this decreases discrimination based on characteristics not realated to the job. We have had great results with this.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-28647832053090076852011-12-15T12:36:39.636-06:002011-12-15T12:36:39.636-06:00In my dept the code is "energy". and yes...In my dept the code is "energy". and yes, usually it means that you are american-born, most likely blue-eyed, male, and have an affiliation with Harvard/MIT and the likes.<br />Once they have decided that you're "the one" they will look for some kind of metric to justify the decision. In the absence of such, they will say that you were better "overall".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47039895671865002332011-12-15T12:08:44.005-06:002011-12-15T12:08:44.005-06:00In my ideal world being obsessed with research wou...<i>In my ideal world being obsessed with research would be a negative for your hiring, not a positive. </i><br /><br />How would departments select candidates in your ideal world? Would they ask questions about family and hobbies and work hours, and select against the person who doesn't have sufficient commitment to family, community activities, or hobbies and creative outlets?<br /><br />In the end, you have to pick the best person based on documented accomplishments and a face-value reading of their open statements in interviews. I agree with FSP that attempting a Vulcan mind-meld with candidates to infer their innermost desires leaves room for all sorts of mischief. Frankly, I think that Stephanie's attitude, if it were implemented as a hiring policy, would also open up room for all sorts of mischief.<br /><br />"Why doesn't she have kids yet? Doesn't she want a life outside academia?" is the sort of thing that should only be said by judgmental in-laws at Christmas dinner, not by hiring committees.Alexnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-58534086789632069292011-12-15T12:04:56.248-06:002011-12-15T12:04:56.248-06:00This is interesting. I hadn't thought about th...This is interesting. I hadn't thought about this being a problem for women. When I was looking for a job as an FSP, I was told on many occasions how enthusiastic I seemd about my research and that this indicated that I would be a great teacher. I think it was an asset in many cases but I know in others, people used it as an excuse to take me less seriously. I didn't worry about that because if I didn't want to be in a department where I couldn't be myself or spend my time with a group of curmudgeons who were jaded and bitter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-33724623583301389682011-12-15T11:53:58.127-06:002011-12-15T11:53:58.127-06:00It would be weird to specifically exclude thinking...It would be weird to specifically exclude thinking about research from the allowed things to think about while flossing.<br /><br />"Passion for Research" given simply like this is impossible parse. As everyone stated, the specific criteria matter far more. We certainly try to use PFR as a criterion for graduate admissions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-50982669040478686492011-12-15T11:38:19.980-06:002011-12-15T11:38:19.980-06:00I'm at an R1 (though not of the caliber of the...I'm at an R1 (though not of the caliber of the ones you listed, an R1 nonetheless). We did a (successful) search last year and have another underway now.<br /><br />We get about 700+ applicants, but in fact every application gets read by someone. The first filter is most definitely publication list (how many, what frequency, which journals) and most certainly not graduate or postdoc institution. In fact, a couple of people were discounted because they were postdocs at top-name places and somehow didn't seem as much better as they should have been, given the opportunities they had. Or something like that.<br /><br />Anyway, our initial cut is something like 700+ to about 60, and that is surprisingly not hard at all. Most of those applicants are simply not anywhere near the caliber of the top folks. Those folks get phone interviews, then a handful get campus interviews. (How that cut happens is a mystery to me, since I'm not on the hiring committee.) To decide on who to hire... well, that seems to involve a lot of long meetings and occasional yelling. <br /><br />It was my first time through the process last year. I'm interested to see what happens this time around.MathTTnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32367024547192627362011-12-15T10:43:56.360-06:002011-12-15T10:43:56.360-06:00In our hiring process last year, there was definit...In our hiring process last year, there was definitely some concern that one of the candidates was not as passionate about (her) research as the other (male) candidates. I attributed that to shyness, a characteristic I share and definitely feel has disadvantaged me at interviews. I don't think it was the only reason she didn't get the offer, but it certainly didn't help.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com