tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post6433986133607711050..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Off MessageFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-13879516713584768902010-07-05T21:39:04.726-05:002010-07-05T21:39:04.726-05:00Whether I agree or disagree with you, FSP, I have ...Whether I agree or disagree with you, FSP, I have to thank you because this blog always makes me think about the topics that you consider. I wanted to share this... <br /><br />As an undergrad, I attended a small, private, non-research intensive university. The environment, not only in my department but also in my school/college, was such that there was a significant amount of interactions between the faculty and students. I became friendly with one particular emeritus professor who continued to teach on occasion despite his status. He knew that I had a particularly busy semester at one point, which included TAing two consecutive labs for him on the same day. A few weeks into the semester, he started to bring me a bagged lunch and 'made' me take a break to eat it. Several years later, I thanked him for this, and other things, in my PhD thesis. He left quite an impression on me.<br /><br />Last week I read in our alumni magazine that this professor passed away early this year. My first thought, honestly, was that this professor was so kind and sweet to me (and then this post entered my train of thought). He of course also taught me important scientific and networking skills, but so did my other professors.<br /><br />I guess what I'm saying is: sometimes it's the little things, like a bagged lunch (or whatever it was that caused your student to leave that particular comment), that impress us, and I don't think that's a bad thing.clfflurnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-64815848779813606582010-07-05T19:46:12.643-05:002010-07-05T19:46:12.643-05:00I have been gorging on feminist blogs recently. A ...I have been gorging on feminist blogs recently. A point that comes up over and over (and over again) is that in our culture (North America) men (generally, heterosexual white men) are considered the norm or benchmark, and women are thus implicitly as well as explicitly defined as "other" or "less."<br /><br />I would tend to assume that the students who commented FSP is kind/sweet and hugged her meant their comments/gestures positively, but I completely understand the "ick" reaction. <br /><br />In a non -sexist world, being "kind" or "sweet" or helpful to a student would be a risk-free positive. But for FSP and her female colleagues, these terms come with the ever-present potential downside of gender stereotypes overpowering the perception of FSP & co. as competent scientists/researchers.<br /><br />To that, I say "ick" indeed.<br /><br />(I'm someone who started out in science (before defecting to arts and later becoming a medical writer), and one of the main reasons I got a 94% in first year calculus was my professor, who was "kind" and a "sweetie." But there was no downside to him being perceived as such.)<br /><br />I suppose all we can do as individuals is continue to converse, blog and slog away, and where feasible, challenge the bullshit.<br /><br />One of my oldest friends, now working at Jet Propulsion Labs in Pasadena, has faced discouragement and sexism ever since a high school guidance counsellor tried to steer her away from the math and science courses she loved simply because she was female. She dealt with all sorts of BS through her MS degree (pun not intended) and eventually made it to JPL where she managed to complete a second MS in computer science while working full time.<br /><br />Every woman who is a success in science is an antidote to sexism and bullshit.<br /><br />Congrats to all of you.<br /><br />Science Groupie, aka PharmawriterBeakernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-53922776268711771322010-06-29T23:04:36.443-05:002010-06-29T23:04:36.443-05:00People are always writing things on my liberal art...People are always writing things on my liberal arts evals like "kind, sweet, caring, approachable". Obviously, doesn't help me refine my courses or make me feel like a badass scientist. BUT...I teach in a department with other profs teaching similar intro sections, and mine seem to be the most "popular" (though I have tended to assign more challenging coursework and have longer/tougher exams than others - not sure if the perception of my personality is a significant factor in this "popularity" or not). Of course, a primary motivation of mine to have "popular" sections is to attract good students and to recruit decent research students early in their careers, which is going pretty well so far...maybe it's not such a bad thing to be perceived in this way? May depend a bit on what students are looking for and at what point they find themselves in their academic careers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23904516052782030382010-06-29T08:10:20.469-05:002010-06-29T08:10:20.469-05:00I think a good question is whether or not someone ...I think a good question is whether or not someone who isn't kind and sweet can be respected. Perhaps it is my southern roots... but being kind to people goes hand in hand with being respected. For me, I find it rather difficult to respect cold and detached people. Being approachable and liked doesn't make you a welcome mat to be walked over and disrespected.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-1540765510935425122010-06-26T11:51:58.343-05:002010-06-26T11:51:58.343-05:00I personally strived to make my profs cringe in aw...I personally strived to make my profs cringe in awkward discomfort when I wrote their assessments. I am glad others carry on in my proud tradition.karlhttp://www.nmt.edu/~holstien/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-64342910576659040482010-06-24T19:07:31.527-05:002010-06-24T19:07:31.527-05:00This reminds me of the "so-and-so's wife&...This reminds me of the "so-and-so's wife" introduction in the post above; the problem isn't that "sweet and kind" is applied as a label (just like there's nothing particularly awful about being married to someone) but you don't want that to be your defining characteristic, either. If someone had one thing to say about me as a professional I would not want it to be about my marital status or my kindness.Bagelsannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-21035850007707010012010-06-24T07:48:14.847-05:002010-06-24T07:48:14.847-05:00I agree with FSP's concern and Anonymous #1 (f...I agree with FSP's concern and Anonymous #1 (first comment). <br /><br />The problem for those of us who are called kind and sweet, is that we also get called a lot of awful names when we have to put our foot down on something. <br /><br />The urge to constantly chacterize our personalities is strong. It is one of the clearest indicators that gender discrimination is alive and thriving in academia. Eventually when an FSP gets to be 60+ she will be around long enough for people to settle on one description. But too many FSPs are pushed out of academia like this.<br /><br />I think this post touches on a bigger issue than appears on the surface.Meadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00922827724363185027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61003933414975184982010-06-23T12:35:25.128-05:002010-06-23T12:35:25.128-05:00I like anonymous 6.36 comment. Yes, being a nice p...I like anonymous 6.36 comment. Yes, being a nice person does not exclude being intelligent, ambitious etc.<br />I would be bothered personally by being called 'sweet' though - it isn't a word I would want people to use about me (in the work context anyway). But that goes back to the 'women can't win' thing, we are expected to be *either* mean career bitches or appropriately sweet but not to be taken seriously. But that *shouldn't* be the case.butterflywingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873407072604417252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84077663576073397812010-06-23T09:17:03.769-05:002010-06-23T09:17:03.769-05:00This post got more anonymous comments than almost ...This post got more anonymous comments than almost any other post, it feels like. Interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-74998149143693530862010-06-23T09:13:06.420-05:002010-06-23T09:13:06.420-05:00I think you need to lighten up a little and stop r...<i>I think you need to lighten up a little and stop reading too much into this.<br /></i><br />Yeah! Lighten up, bitch! Smile, sweetie!Comrade PhysioProfhttp://physioprof.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-4514052062697240402010-06-22T22:59:51.513-05:002010-06-22T22:59:51.513-05:00I'm not sure, but I'm highly suspicious th...I'm not sure, but I'm highly suspicious that there's a generational thing going on here. For the past ten years, I've heard friends of mine that teach high school talking about how their students have changed - becoming less "scared" of their teachers and more buddy-buddy with them. I don't know why this is happening, but I think it might be time to brace for more and more students talking to/about professors this way.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18818484865327696912010-06-22T18:36:46.085-05:002010-06-22T18:36:46.085-05:00I'm a native English speaker and female postdo...I'm a native English speaker and female postdoc in a competitive field. The post and many comments here surprise me: I do not see "kind and sweet" as anything other than a compliment, and I'm bothered so many people suggest it might incriminate FSP's cognitive abilities or professional authority. Sharp minds aren't so hard to come by; sharp minds accompanied by a generous demeanor are rare and wonderful. Except perhaps in scientific writing, our personalities show themselves in our professional activities. As an undergrad, I know I searched out mentors who appeared professionally successful AND kind, because I wanted to see how I didn't have to sacrifice the latter for the former. There are enough assholes in science. "Kind and sweet" doesn't mean "uncritical, noncompetitive, and unambitious." It implies you try to help those around you, which is the real way to get Science (not just your science) done.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-61888800775406215702010-06-22T17:52:20.907-05:002010-06-22T17:52:20.907-05:00I would find that comment icky- a perfect descript...I would find that comment icky- a perfect description. It's not horribly offensive or anything, just not what I would be hoping for if a student felt s/he had to summarize my teaching in one sentence.zednoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-77439522775237542772010-06-22T14:55:23.946-05:002010-06-22T14:55:23.946-05:00I hear you... I was at a friend's seminar once...I hear you... I was at a friend's seminar once and the professor in front of me turned to her neighbor at the end of my friend's talk and said "She is so cute!" I sure hope nobody comes out of my science talks saying that about me!Patchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09097638657085263738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-6562076106490777372010-06-22T13:59:07.511-05:002010-06-22T13:59:07.511-05:00Did the student think they were signing your yearb...Did the student think they were signing your yearbook or something? Did it also say, "Hope you have a great summer! Can't wait to see you next year! K.I.T.!"SamanthaScientisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07523530309971427206noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-20035119714663193212010-06-22T13:53:26.712-05:002010-06-22T13:53:26.712-05:00I agree with FSP, this student clearly shows disre...I agree with FSP, this student clearly shows disrespect for FSP. I do not have any respect for kind people. My advise for FSP: find out who this student is and vandalize their car and/or apartment to gain the respect you deserve. It is sad that students these days need to be reminded they MUST respect us...or else!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-72306758514278466802010-06-22T13:22:20.550-05:002010-06-22T13:22:20.550-05:00Some undergrads just don't have the vocabulary...Some undergrads just don't have the vocabulary to express themselves properly. And when you fill out the course evaluation at the very end of class, it's tempting to just jot down an unexplained perception and flounce out the door. Since this student didn't bother to substantiate his/her claim or add any concrete examples of how you are "kind and sweet," I'd just dismiss it entirely.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-76370101662107051642010-06-22T12:42:30.983-05:002010-06-22T12:42:30.983-05:00I've received that on teaching evaluations as ...I've received that on teaching evaluations as well. As a TA, it doesn't bother me, but if I were young, female, and a professor, it might IF I felt like my authority wasn't respected. However, I think it's pretty clear from the class behavior as a whole whether you have an issue with that--and if you didn't sense that, I wouldn't worry about it. Also, I would echo the earlier commenter about students whose first language isn't English--I have often gotten some odd comments on my evaluations for exactly that reason.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-47311839758056979172010-06-22T12:07:36.535-05:002010-06-22T12:07:36.535-05:00My students keep referring to me as "cheerful...My students keep referring to me as "cheerful" and even "cheery" in their evaluations. And it's making me very angry. I've started questioning myself about whether I should change my teaching style dramatically in order to avoid being perceived as some kind of a cheerleader.Clarissahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11027134365260069910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43156512067913697762010-06-22T11:16:36.337-05:002010-06-22T11:16:36.337-05:00The commenters who say things like 'lighten up...The commenters who say things like 'lighten up' etc. don't seem to understand blogs and the use of anecdotes to discuss a broader topic, not just complain or obsess. There is a real topic for discussion at the core of this little anecdote, and the substantive comments on this are also interesting.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-71431240639396008412010-06-22T11:07:21.238-05:002010-06-22T11:07:21.238-05:00One thing that most people are forgetting is that ...One thing that most people are forgetting is that descriptions by others have completely different meanings to the exact same descriptions you may use on yourself. There really isn't any point in delving too much in semantics or you would just drive yourself crazy trying.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-72094572386972705752010-06-22T10:45:50.467-05:002010-06-22T10:45:50.467-05:00I think you need to lighten up a little and stop r...I think you need to lighten up a little and stop reading too much into this. It was a compliment. I doubt the student meant it as anything more complicated than that.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23811315197053946782010-06-22T10:45:50.466-05:002010-06-22T10:45:50.466-05:00Slightly off topic -- saw a license plate frame re...Slightly off topic -- saw a license plate frame recently which pretty much made my day:<br /><br />"You call me a b*tch like that's a bad thing."<br /><br />I agree with other comments, I think it's a limited language issue and not that you are actually a lollipop prof.Azulaohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00771800031142538095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-86776633679755775372010-06-22T10:33:40.617-05:002010-06-22T10:33:40.617-05:00I got called sweet once as well. Since I'm no...I got called sweet once as well. Since I'm not a sweet person, by any stretch, I took it as yet further proof that students have poor judgment. Like I needed more proof.<br /><br />And for those of you who think there's no conflict between being mom-like and respected as an authority figure ... just wait until your father comes home! He'll set you straight.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32813388087226132782010-06-22T10:19:26.643-05:002010-06-22T10:19:26.643-05:00One of the best things about going to a small libe...One of the best things about going to a small liberal arts college was the opportunity to develop personal relationships with my professors - which required that they be human beings. Could I describe some of them as kind, sweet, supportive, friendly? Yes. Did I respect them as authority figures and scientists? Yes. All courses/professors being otherwise equal, what may set you apart is personality. For many students, it is a relief to have an intelligent, authoritative professor who is also approachable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com