tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post7520012663483190783..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: Trailing SpouseFemale Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-18771798762815547812011-03-07T03:47:50.282-06:002011-03-07T03:47:50.282-06:00I just found this blog. Interesting post. I may be...I just found this blog. Interesting post. I may be missing something, but since the husband is the one the department was *really* interested in, and the wife was the one they *had* to make a position for in order to get who they really wanted (i.e. the husband) isn't it only natural that the wife isn't valued as much by the department? If anything they may have thought "well to make it worth our while we now have someone to do all the grunt work that no one else wants to do."Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-80541859305593572132010-09-15T08:12:40.039-05:002010-09-15T08:12:40.039-05:00I am not a trailing spouse, but I and other women ...I am not a trailing spouse, but I and other women in my department have experienced differences in course loads than our male peers. We learned from an internal study that the difference in course loads between males and females were statistically significant (p<.05 on various measures). We have addressed this issue and are making changesAnother female professornoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-73102426610841735042010-09-13T04:15:54.470-05:002010-09-13T04:15:54.470-05:00It is very unclear that paragraphs 2-9 of this pos...It is very unclear that paragraphs 2-9 of this post are someone else who is not you. They aren't block quoted or even set off with a quotation mark. I didn't realize it wasn't you until I got to the very last paragraph of the post.Noumenonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01597461989960782762noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-37035793149508619712010-09-11T17:10:47.101-05:002010-09-11T17:10:47.101-05:00I agree that this "trailing spouse" issu...I agree that this "trailing spouse" issue is just a (very poor) excuse for gender bias. Are there any male trailing spouses being treated in this way at your university? To be honest, at my university (North Dakota State) many women report being treated as you describe, whether or not they have a spouse and without regard for how they were hired. The good ol' boys network runs from department chairmen to deans and provost. There is very little recourse to address grievances with such a unified cabal of decision makers, resulting in very low retention of female assistant professors.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-55145532162017170022010-09-10T10:19:28.836-05:002010-09-10T10:19:28.836-05:00The letter writer might be suffering real gender b...The letter writer might be suffering real gender bias, but most likely it is as other people have said in here, just being looked down on for being the following spouse. Also guys do not in general discuss anything in bathroom. It's pretty rare to hear any conversation in there at all, as it's a little awkward for all parties involved.Hypothetical Engineerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08221615016700353461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-25518569935312990302010-09-08T20:40:33.449-05:002010-09-08T20:40:33.449-05:00I was also hired at the university where my husban...I was also hired at the university where my husband held a position but in my case I won a major grant that payed my salary for 5 years and after that time period the university had to hire me.<br />I am the only female in the department and I have noticed over the years that I am rarely chosen to serve on major committees whereas my husband is. I was pressured to take an academic duty that nobody wanted right after my maternity leave which did not suit me at all...etc. I try to carry on my own work but it certainly is difficult at times not being treated as equalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-91114741419887826252010-09-08T18:40:41.891-05:002010-09-08T18:40:41.891-05:00I wonder if the issue here is not so much that you...I wonder if the issue here is not so much that your reader is a trailing spouse as much as she is the trailing FEMALE spouse?<br /><br />Given the described "bit of a boys network," I wonder if the same apparent inequalities would exist if her husband had been the trailer.Unbalanced Reactionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13407339711183651108noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-34879954271134435952010-09-08T07:08:37.253-05:002010-09-08T07:08:37.253-05:00It's too bad that "trailing" is ofte...It's too bad that "trailing" is often perceived as "less-than". I look at "trailing" as nothing more than "if we had a job opening with your description we would hire you". Will a University really hire a partner to recruit another even if that "trailing" partner is inadequate according to their usual standards? (Yes I realize there can be a difference between actual hiring process and how a new hire is perceived, but still.)Female post-docnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-51683133085999291472010-09-08T05:06:29.467-05:002010-09-08T05:06:29.467-05:00Um, why are you making requests to your department...Um, why are you making requests to your department through your husband??? You should be making requests on your own, stomping louder if necessary to get heard. No wonder they treat you like a second class citizen.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-41869576154377014232010-09-07T13:38:40.311-05:002010-09-07T13:38:40.311-05:00this kinda thing happens all the time, not juz in ...this kinda thing happens all the time, not juz in the academic arena, but in a corporate organization as well.<br /><br />despite all the technological advances made, ppl r still susceptible to gender bias.<br /><br />it's best to stay cool and focus on ur work.the unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12948743988197782850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-44641687240494214572010-09-07T11:55:56.392-05:002010-09-07T11:55:56.392-05:00My experience has been much like the person who wr...My experience has been much like the person who wrote with the question to begin with. I was in an excellent tt position at a major research university, and as a retention effort was interviewed and offered a job at my husband's university. His school is very prestigious, but more so in attitude than in reality from the place where I was originally.<br /><br />I was promised repeated and backwards and forwards that I would be treated equally, as we were both very concerned about the trailing spouse issue.<br /><br />This has not ended up being the case at all, despite my very successful research program and high esteem of many of my professional colleagues off-campus. <br /><br />The majority of the department sees me as a second class citizen who doesn't deserve anything more than the smallest lab space (if I want more I should borrow some from my husband, I was told). Even the dean agreed that I was treated like a second class citizen and that's what I get for how I was hired.<br /><br />I am pretty bitter about the situation, but have no solution for how to fix it. Although I turn down a lot of the dinky but time consuming dept committee assignments I get asked to do and focus instead on university service. People outside my department treat me very well, and so I focus my efforts where I am treated with respect.<br /><br />The equity office on my campus had recommended this approach, and it has been good for me so far. If the dept won't consider me an equal, then they don't get my commitment and energies.inBetweenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17212548401525577878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-23059084246858441932010-09-07T10:49:08.534-05:002010-09-07T10:49:08.534-05:00I think my advice would be to stop acting like a t...I think my advice would be to stop acting like a trailing spouse. <br /><br />Act like half of a power couple who could at any point get swiped away by another institution. Protect your time. Learn to say, "No," or rather "I would love to, but unfortunately I am already committed on X, Y, and Z, so I will have to decline."<br /><br />Discuss your teaching load with the chair. Sure, your husband may not have had to, but that's the chair's misconception and it needs to be corrected. Yes, we're discriminated against but in the short-term that means we need to work harder and speak up for ourselves more. You don't have to put up with things that are unfair, bring it up just like BugDog says.<br /><br />The trailing spouses in my department were hired before I got here and I never would have known they were trailing spouses if it weren't for their admissions as to that's why they have such completely undeserved low self-esteem. One of them recently tried to leave for another school and only now, after being given a counter-offer, has she gotten out of the idea that the only reason she's employed here is because her husband has a job. The change in attitude is remarkable.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-15877780686032881172010-09-07T10:16:04.201-05:002010-09-07T10:16:04.201-05:00I don't think I would want my wife to be hired...I don't think I would want my wife to be hired because of me. I would prefer to just take twice the salary, vacation, startup, etc. And just have my wife work somewhere else (or stay at home cooking/cleaning).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-30942184917839991422010-09-07T09:12:53.535-05:002010-09-07T09:12:53.535-05:00I agree with one of the earlier comments that this...I agree with one of the earlier comments that this faculty member should regard herself as any other faculty (without regard to her husband) and speak with her chair. Rather than ask why she is getting assigned additional teaching/service, one approach could be to talk to the chair and say "As I'm sure you are aware, I've had extensive teaching and service commitments for the past several years. I'm happy that I could help out the department in this way, but I'd like to ask for these committee/teaching assignments (more prestigious/less time consuming) for next year so that I can focus more on my research program." Sadly, sometimes these assignments get made unfairly without anyone realizing that these inequities get built up over time, so just stating the concern and asking specific for what she would like (in person, not by email) might alert the chair that some changes need to be made.BugDocnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-59778034041058586822010-09-07T09:02:42.570-05:002010-09-07T09:02:42.570-05:00to anon #1:
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. ...to anon #1:<br /><br />It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. We assume trailing spouse will fail at research, so we give them extra dept duties like teaching and service, so their research falls behind, and we are proven right. This says nothing about trailing spouse's actual "chance of productivity".<br /><br />I've seen cases in both gender directions though sadly among senior faculty the most common case seems to be wife-as-support-staff. The male senior faculty in letter-writer's dept are probably just annoyed that she's not staying in the kitchen/husband's lab with all the other wives where she belongs. <br /><br />Best of luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84564546512768933562010-09-07T08:49:22.512-05:002010-09-07T08:49:22.512-05:00I have to say that while the letter writer's s...I have to say that while the letter writer's situation is unfortunate, it really isn't all that surprising.The department probably feels that they were doing her a favor by creating a post for her, especially if they hadn't planned on hiring two people from the start, and that she therefore "owes" them extra service, teaching, etc. Whether it is true or not, her colleagues might also think that she was not qualified to get the job without her husband, and there might be some resentment from those who had to get the job "on their own." When you add the gender bias that is still so prevalent in academia, things only get worse. My advice to the writer: 1) Seriously evaluate the quality of your work. If you truly feel that it is on par with your husband and others in the department who get better treatment, then bring your concerns to the chair or other senior faculty. But do so without mentioning your husband if you can. i.e. Don't say "why does my husband get treated better?" Instead, say "why do other dept faculty get X when I only get Y even though I have the same number of grants/students/publications/awards/etc." 2) Stop making requests through your husband. This practice probably exacerbates the problem and places you more firmly in your husband's shadow -- i.e. "Oh, she only got the promotion/lab space/assignment/tenure/etc. because of her husband, just like the way she got the job in the first place." Don't think of yourself as the trailing spouse. Your are your own independent researcher, and that is the image you should be portraying to others. Concentrate on your work and moving your career forward without reference to his career. And speak up for yourself when things are unjust. If there are other female faculty, they are probably also annoyed by the boys' club mentality. You can work together with them to change things. And try to enlist sympathetic male senior faculty to your cause as well. Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-69461339107588771922010-09-07T05:29:22.362-05:002010-09-07T05:29:22.362-05:00I hate to say that I have found myself in EXACTLY ...I hate to say that I have found myself in EXACTLY the same situation despite my husband being the trailing spouse. I never found the senior colleague that FSP found, but I agree that it would be a big help.<br /><br /> I can't say that it has gotten any better (we are now newly tenured associates), but I've developed a strong reputation in my field despite the persistent inequities in my department, and thus just care less what those in my department think. I am more assiduous about self-promoting within my department, though.<br /><br />Good luck!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-75128208200351671052010-09-07T02:13:29.767-05:002010-09-07T02:13:29.767-05:00I am glad that my husband is not an academic as I ...I am glad that my husband is not an academic as I don't think I could handle being in the position of your reader without some serious resentment building up that could possibly threaten our marriage!<br /><br />Also, FSP's responses indicate how crucial it is to an academic career to have a mentor with clout. I have seen time and time again how junior scientists' careers are squashed or simply never got off the ground because of a lack of a senior or powerful person as an advocate. It is unfortunate that merit and hard work and determination are all necessary but not sufficient but such is the way of the world. I hope the reader will thus get busy building some allies among senior powerful colleagues.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-72705587605561153992010-09-07T00:31:19.048-05:002010-09-07T00:31:19.048-05:00Doesn't it stand to reason that the non-traili...Doesn't it stand to reason that the non-trailing spouse will be the one who is more greatly valued and has a greater chance of productivity? Why should the two be on equal footing, regardless of gender?<br /><br />P.S. Most guys do not like to talk about important things (or anything) in the bathroom. While it is possible that the big players in the reader's department are amongst those who do, I really doubt it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com