tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post852295051808508984..comments2024-03-25T02:33:41.590-05:00Comments on FemaleScienceProfessor: This is 2009Female Science Professorhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15288567883197987690noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81037914127577021742009-02-10T20:49:00.000-06:002009-02-10T20:49:00.000-06:00"clearly knows the material" is not sexist, and it..."clearly knows the material" is not sexist, and it's a COMPLIMENT, in my experience.<BR/><BR/>In fact, overall, my impression is student evaluations are not biased towards men, rather the reverse (or more likely women are just better teachers), peer reviews are the bigger problem.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-5864267373357079242009-02-10T10:33:00.000-06:002009-02-10T10:33:00.000-06:00Zed -- I'm a male professor and I have won two tea...Zed -- I'm a male professor and I have won two teaching awards. Students line up to take my classes, they know I am an outstanding teacher. I regularly get comments like one of yours on my teaching evaluations for introductory classes: "he clearly knows the materials". That one, at least, seems not to be a sexist comment. The one telling you to "relax" might be sexist, although I suspect that FSP's husband would get similar comments when he was coming across as angry (I just read that post).<BR/><BR/>And I'll note my anecdote above is not meant to deny ProfJ's point; it's likely class evals for science faculty have a gender bias, which sucks. Such class evals are used for things such as teaching awards I won, for example. And promotion and tenure.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-12134518702766589952009-02-10T06:40:00.000-06:002009-02-10T06:40:00.000-06:00@Jacopo: Italy is different. Traditionally, Italy ...@Jacopo: Italy is different. Traditionally, Italy has many poorly paid entry positions, with a very reasonable percentage of women; women full professors are few and far apart.<BR/><BR/>Moving out of Italy was a terrible shock in that sense - during my first year in Germany people assumed I must be a secretary. Central and Northern Europe are like the US.barbarahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07920729871547017890noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-5288019501449874412009-02-10T00:38:00.000-06:002009-02-10T00:38:00.000-06:00I see young male assistant professors who are my a...I see young male assistant professors who are my age, rapidly adopting the attitudes and stances of their older male mentors which often includes gender stereotypes. So whereas these young guys may have been less sexist when they were in school and postdoc, now as faculty they are becoming more so. That is very sad. I don't know how to explain it. One hypothesis is that in their desperation to 'fit in' into the culture of their departments (engineering and physics) and gain acceptance among the senior colleagues who will be judging their tenure worth, they adopt the attitudes and mannerisms of their senior faculty colleagues whom they are in awe of. Another hypothesis is that whereas when they were in grad school and postdoc they may have had wives or girlfriends who were also grad students and postdocs, now it is more likely that the men are the ones with the TT job while their significant others didn't make it (because we know that there IS still gender bias especially in physical sciences) or else chose to sacrifice their careers to raise the kids. So as time goes by these young male professors' lives become more gender-stereotyped so their attitudes can't help but shift as well.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39021015775951711942009-02-09T15:43:00.000-06:002009-02-09T15:43:00.000-06:00Many girls who might become excellent scientists d...Many girls who might become excellent scientists do not take science at high school, or perhaps only maths and biology but not chemistry or physics. Whether this is due to conditioning or a wider group of interests I'm not sure. They may perhaps instead pick up science intheir first year at university and become hooked, so visible female role models at this stage remains important.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-2208354247223251302009-02-09T14:01:00.000-06:002009-02-09T14:01:00.000-06:00Anon, 5.20pm: that's not a joke. The very fact tha...Anon, 5.20pm: that's not a joke. The very fact that some people are confused and don't get that the surgeon could be his mother shows unconscious stereotyping.<BR/><BR/>Pagan Topologist - Marie Curie wasn't held up as an example to me, I discovered her when I was around 14 and I still remember the sense of 'So women CAN be scientists and have a family life'. As truthspeaker says, it's childcare and domestic issues that mean women do<BR/><BR/>Although the guys sports'n'poker'n'shooting thing IS a major way women are kept out. I feel that in my workplace. And yes, some women do enjoy those things, and I notice that those women are more liked and progress faster. I don't enjoy those things. Should I force myself to? Why act like a stereotypical male, like someone I'm not?<BR/><BR/>And some men aren't into those things, either.<BR/><BR/>The answer is more diversity, and for progression not to depend on being one of the guys - not for women to act like stereotypical men.<BR/><BR/>MsPhD (and others) sad, isn't it? *sigh*.butterflywingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16873407072604417252noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39557776481606552982009-02-09T05:28:00.000-06:002009-02-09T05:28:00.000-06:00I'm a PhD student in a science field and yes, this...I'm a PhD student in a science field and yes, this is STILL a problem. As the first commenter suggested, I have been part of a community outreach project that sends students out in pairs to local public middle and junior high schools to visit science classes and lead some fun and educational demos/experiments and also promote college and STEM fields in a school district that is poor and very non-white. My counterpart for these visits is a man of Southeast Asian heritage, so we figured "hey, a woman and a brown man...good team." Well, the students mostly assume that I am his wife or girlfriend coming along to "help the scientist." Arrgghhh. But I guess this is what we have to keep doing to make things change.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-2992470432612411842009-02-08T11:37:00.000-06:002009-02-08T11:37:00.000-06:00Try searching for "scientist" and "professor" in g...Try searching for "scientist" and "professor" in google images.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-43843515829199263882009-02-08T11:35:00.000-06:002009-02-08T11:35:00.000-06:00It's funny to read this since I had a very similar...It's funny to read this since I had a very similar experience this week. <BR/><BR/>I went to one of these Esteemed Older Woman Receives Award type of seminars, where this woman who got her PhD in the '50s was talking about how she has tried to fight for women's rights in science while having a science career. <BR/><BR/>The saddest part to me is not what she went through. It's that I've experienced most of the same things she describes, and she and all her friends assume that they don't exist anymore. <BR/><BR/>They do, and they're not going away anytime soon.Ms.PhDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06542602867472447035noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-81643453135927100192009-02-07T11:39:00.000-06:002009-02-07T11:39:00.000-06:00This topic is very relevant for me, since I’ve bec...This topic is very relevant for me, since I’ve become increasingly aware that gender bias still exists—and more importantly, that young women in science seem to be oblivious to it. <BR/><BR/>I’m a senior scientist who started out in college when females were rare in many fields of science (60’s & 70’s). So there were not only no role-models for me (other than the few historical figures such as Marie Curie), but a lot of active discouragement for me to pursue a career in science. <BR/><BR/>Fortunately, I persevered and have become a successful scientist.<BR/><BR/>What to do about bias is a difficult question. I continue to challenge sexist comments whenever I hear them, but try to minimize the whining—which generally falls on deaf ears and/or puts people on the defensive (even those males who are generally supportive). <BR/><BR/>Instead, I’ve decided to take an active, but positive step that may help redress imbalances. I’ve formed a section or chapter within an international society I belong to—the group is called “Women in XXX”, which will focus on ways to help female scientists in our field succeed. We are hosting symposia (at our society conferences) on improving skills (science writing, presentations, grants-woman-ship, etc.) as well as setting up a mentoring program that matches up senior scientists (both male and female) with students and early-career females. We are hoping to attract male members, especially advisors and mentors, in the hopes of raising their awareness of women’s issues. I’m also helping to design a web page, which will be part of the society web site, that highlights the females in our society and the work they do.<BR/><BR/>I also think (as another poster commented) that going into the elementary, middle, and grade schools and giving presentations/ demonstrations is important--so that both boys and girls can see that scientists are not all white males. I’m scheduled to visit several middle schools in a couple of weeks to talk about my science---this is part of a program sponsored by the Smithsonian Institution called Scholars in the Schools (www.scholarsintheschools.org/home.htm). I’m pretty sure I’ll be the first female scientist many of them have met in person.<BR/><BR/>Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to offer some ideas for combating bias and helping prepare younger females for overcoming the obstacles that await them in “the real world”.DrDoyennehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01923421604660796579noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79578739516640317682009-02-07T08:47:00.000-06:002009-02-07T08:47:00.000-06:00My favorite is when male students think that if th...My favorite is when male students think that if they start a sexist statement with "not to be sexist, but..." or "I don't want to be sexist, but..." they can expect me not to be offended. They are sorely, sorely mistaken.Anonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12997742500689588929noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-39705937633275205642009-02-06T09:53:00.000-06:002009-02-06T09:53:00.000-06:00All the lab coats I worn in this country felt stra...All the lab coats I worn in this country felt strangely uncomfortable. I couldn't realize what the problem is until someone pointed out they all have male-type buttons (sewn on the right side).<BR/>Such a subtle but a tell-tale sign...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-3884514456368733552009-02-06T07:07:00.000-06:002009-02-06T07:07:00.000-06:00truthspeaker: yes, of course some women do enjoy s...truthspeaker: yes, of course some women do enjoy sports, playing poker, etc. And I certainly don't think my colleagues are sexist because they like these activities. Nor are they responsible for the fact that I don't happen to enjoy them. My hobbies include sewing and knitting, and I haven't had the fortune to have any male colleagues who enjoy those things.<BR/><BR/>My point is simply this: even if no individual person is sexist, the gender imbalance itself creates a situation that is difficult for the minority gender. It's simply more likely that among 9 men and 2 women, more of the men will find activities they enjoy doing together. Add on to this the fact that there are all kind of barriers to men and women hanging out together as friends. I'm also the only single person in my dept, and I know that creates problems. The guys get together in pairs sometimes to go out for a drink or play video games together. What if I went out with one of them to do those things instead? His wife would get jealous, and the whole thing would be awkward. To be fair, the guys have been very nice about inviting me over for dinner with their families, and that works fine. But I don't think they're going to invite me to the poker games or out for a drink.<BR/><BR/>Just to add another anecdote: when I was in grad school, a bunch of the male grad students formed what they "jokingly" called a men's-only club that would get together for poker and academic discussions. Fortunately, there were enough women in the dept. (about 1/3 of the students), that we were able to get together for our own discussions.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-62075837689740024562009-02-06T06:54:00.000-06:002009-02-06T06:54:00.000-06:00Rather than just griping about gender stereotypes,...Rather than just griping about gender stereotypes, we women can use scientific knowledge to work around them. Virgina Valian's book 'Why so slow' and the Gender Equity Project use research in Psychology to show how everyone (men and women, young and old) have implicit ideas about gender differences. More importantly, Psychology is starting to show how women can best promote their careers in the current environment, and how we can work over the longer term to change the environment.<BR/><BR/>Some more info at - <BR/>http://www.hunter.cuny.edu/genderequity/<BR/>http://maxweber.hunter.cuny.edu/psych/faculty/valian/valian.htmAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60541637833254611962009-02-06T00:09:00.000-06:002009-02-06T00:09:00.000-06:00Have to agree with the most recent Anonymous; I th...Have to agree with the most recent Anonymous; I think Canada is in some sort of discrimination Bermuda triangle. I've been an undergrad physics, computer science and psychology student, and am currently a neuroscience grad student, and in none of those situations have I ever been made to feel out of place or stupid or in the minority. I've never once been met with surprise that I was female (although when someone discovered my pseudonym at the humour paper I used to write for, they said they thought I was a dude). I have a male advisor at the moment and he is a fierce advocate for women in science. So maybe there is still some bias against funny girls, but not smart girls.Evehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02264848674807433431noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-79956897327497321662009-02-05T23:20:00.000-06:002009-02-05T23:20:00.000-06:00ProfJ- I'm really interested in this as well. I'm ...ProfJ- I'm really interested in this as well. I'm amazed at how many comments I get in undergrad evaluations along the lines of 'she clearly knows the material' or even, 'you know the stuff, just relax'. Of COURSE I 'know the material'!!! It's an intro class. I just can't imagine they write things like this for even the most inept male prof.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-48798468052117630802009-02-05T21:48:00.000-06:002009-02-05T21:48:00.000-06:00Despite my contrarian nature, the treatment of wom...Despite my contrarian nature, the treatment of women in science is obviously a problem. I think some here overstate and others understate the problem, but it remains.<BR/><BR/>I think it may be simply a function of men driving much of the administration of science and liking their own image, but who can tell until the numerical discrepancy between men and women is greatly reduced.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-62321133262564252812009-02-05T21:33:00.000-06:002009-02-05T21:33:00.000-06:00It seems to me we are still dealing with the probl...It seems to me we are still dealing with the problems because they are still there. Which to me means that no matter what changes a few individuals have made, the institution itself has not addressed what it is that actually chases women (and, while we are at it, minorities) away from the field in the first place.<BR/><BR/>So the real question is, what is it that causes those problems?Tashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04871581076638898272noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-49954206017474257612009-02-05T21:09:00.000-06:002009-02-05T21:09:00.000-06:00I wanted to be a scientist when I was a child; I b...I wanted to be a scientist when I was a child; I became a mathematician for a variety of reasons. I am male, but I am always surprised by the stories about how women scientists and science students are treated, because when I was a child, Marie Curie was held up to me as the most visible icon of what it meant to be a scientist. Einstein was a distant second, and I don't think I had ever heard of him until he died, when I was nine years old. Is Mme. Curie not still pointed out to students as the archetype scientist? Or was this just in the 1950's?Pagan Topologisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01611788563582362688noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-32168493515913990412009-02-05T19:37:00.000-06:002009-02-05T19:37:00.000-06:00re 7:25am post:I'll have hope for women in science...re 7:25am post:<BR/><BR/><I>I'll have hope for women in science when departments are forced to hire people who are different from the pasty white morons currently in power.</I><BR/><BR/>Stereotyped retrograde thinking like this is a problem, not a solution, nor the kind of libel to ignore.<BR/><BR/>I'm surprised 10 hours and 15 posts can go by on the topic of derogation by stereotyping without anyone calling out the clearest example present.John Vidalehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09871768524749705799noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-84225583579844511082009-02-05T19:11:00.000-06:002009-02-05T19:11:00.000-06:00I am actually surprised to hear this -- I am an ap...I am actually surprised to hear this -- I am an applied mathematician on the faculty at the Canadian equivalent of an R1. My current three grad students are all female. Over the summer I graduated one male and one female. We have more than 50% female grad students (yes, yes, the faculty ratio is much lower [but not amongst the recent hires]). Our female graduands always have good PDF opportunities (the woman over the summer went straight to faculty). Maybe we are just weird.<BR/><BR/>I have to take slightly disagree with Jose about women in med school though. There part of the situation is that far fewer men are applying! Instead, they are going to B-school or into law where they feel they can make much more money for much less work. I'll try and dig up the report about this. We certainly see it here -- we have lots of female joint Kinesiology/math undergrads trying to get to med school and male math/philosophy or math/economics looking to go onto law or business.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-56050436282926670252009-02-05T17:20:00.000-06:002009-02-05T17:20:00.000-06:00"There was only unanimous agreement on the gender ..."There was only unanimous agreement on the gender of my neighbor for one sentence, "My neighbor is a scientist."<BR/><BR/>Yeah, like the joke: A father and son were in a car crash and they were rushed to hospital. The son was rushed into the operating room and the doctor said I can not operate on him he is my son. How is this possible?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-91262077660659167532009-02-05T16:53:00.000-06:002009-02-05T16:53:00.000-06:00Speaking of stereotypes, it disturbs me that child...Speaking of stereotypes, it disturbs me that childcare is still seen as a women's issue, even by some feminists. Tackling that stereotype would help eliminate some of these biases.<BR/><BR/>Also speaking of stereotypes, I'd like to point out to amy that some women enjoy playing poker, watching soccer, and shooting guns. It's only because of stereotyping that those are seen as male activities.truthspeakerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03322493751391590588noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-60125056090845108952009-02-05T14:54:00.000-06:002009-02-05T14:54:00.000-06:00Speaking of subtle sexism, my friend and I were a ...Speaking of subtle sexism, my friend and I were a bit dismayed by this recent news article: http://www.nature.com/news/2009/090204/full/457650a.htmlAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-29059245.post-29686839895084895802009-02-05T14:33:00.000-06:002009-02-05T14:33:00.000-06:00"Since the story itself is just an anecdote I thou..."Since the story itself is just an anecdote I thought I'd toss in my own."<BR/><BR/>Matthew, look up male privilege. Examine it. Consider it. That *you* don't see these things happening, doesn't meant they aren't happening. And, if you notice, this "just an anecdote" has been echoed multiple times throughout the thread. Obviously, it's not just an ancedote.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com